4ws Removal

[omad]

Have a 4 bolt diff i want to put in but has no hole for the 4ws pump.

Does anyone still have a removal kit they'd like to sell or know of one that works with the Galant?

Also, has anyone tried simply looping the lines where the 4ws pump goes and what effect does it have? Would be good for a temporary fix so i can get it rolling again and bed the clutch in etc.

 

[MDK87]

Watching.
I'd be keen to get a kit too if they do exist.
I wonder if there is anything available like the HICAS lock-out bars you get get for Nissans.

 

[trist]

It can be done by cutting a washer in half then welding it to steering arms pivot point.
Then just block the lines to the rear near the engine.

I will take some pics later.

Cheers,
Aaron.

 

[blackvr]

Food for thought... why does it need a lock out kit when a VR4 RS doesn't come equipped with the 4WS rack and pump. It has the holes in the lower control arm for mounting the rack.... and nothing else. Am I missing something here !

 

[omad]

Yes, they aren't equipped with 4ws at all. If you simply remove the 'active' parts from the 4ws system, the arms still have the same movement ability, except now it can move on it's own to wherever the force of driving applies it.

To put it simply, the late rs models are fixed without movement. Removing the rack etc from 4ws just lets the arms flop around on their own.

 

[blackvr]

The arms don't just "flop" around. I put an RS rear end on the ground side by side with a regular 4WS VR4. Take the rack arms off the regular VR4 trailing arms , and there is zero difference between that and the RS assembly. The VR4 RS drives fine , trust me, without the 4WS !! In fact, in competition ( gravel and tarmac), it handled well . I certainly couldn't feel any issues in the rear end ! It wasn't flopping and moving around, and self steering itself ...

 

[brisvr4]

It's called passive rear wheel steer in the usa.
You do get a tiny bit of movement but nothing that Is noticeable. I pulled my rack out back in 2008 and haven't had an issue since.
Messy job pulling all the lines though!
See if you can find an se or gsr galant at the wreckers and take the front rack from it.

 

[omad]

As far as i was aware the rs models that properly didn't have the 4ws had the arms fixed, not like the 4ws models ? I know about the passive rear steer but the us dsm cars were also released with no 4ws in the rear (passive or otherwise) and they just change the rear end over to eliminate the 4ws. I really can't see them going to all that effort when they could just remove the rack.

I haven't had a close look at an rs, early or late, so can only take your word for it. But there's also the possibility the rear was replaced due to damage at some point over the cars 25+ years.

It just seems a bit redundant that just about everything I've ever come across with 4ws removal on these cars has involved locking the rear arms, especially for competition, if simply removing the rack does the same job.....

 

[JayRome]

Arms dont flop around when you take out the rear steering rack.. I have ripped out a fair few, and you cant feel a difference with "normal driving"..

the bushes inside the rear arms are fairly tough and solid, and are usually fine without the rack attached. if its for motor sport, then clearly you will need to reinforce...

other wise its not hard to make a delete kit, or 20sec on google search comes up with: http://www.3sx.com/store/comersus_viewItemBundle.asp?idProduct=28895

other option is to get the rear arm welded... pending budget..

 

[omad]

I intend to take the car back to track days once it's sorted and i tend to drive it pretty hard.

If you look for longer than 20 sec at that link, you'd see that it's for the 3000gt/gto/stealth. I've come across that and a couple others floating around for some dsm cars. If i knew they would do the job 100%, I'd grab them in a heartbeat.

I'd prefer to try and get the arms stabilised so that there's still the adjustment there and it seems making the arms fixed solid to the car makes it quite noisy.

Going to try quiz the us guys about the kits as well but thought I'd try my luck locally first =)

I'll have to get under it again and have another look, but is there any harm eliminating the pump and just long looping back where it was on the lines?

 

[omad]

Ps - The 'flopping around' was me over simplifying things. I understand they have the play/movement of however much give is in the bushes.

Didn't mean to start anything and apologies if i came across the wrong way. This had been discussed at some length years and years ago also with ready made removal kits available. Kind of kicking myself now that i didn't pay more attention but tbh i wouldn't be considering it if the new diff had a spot for the 4ws pump.

 

[JayRome]

The Galant VR4 and the GTO/3000GT/Stealth share the same rear end design.

The GTO/3000GT/Stealth arms sit out wider and K frame more reinforced, thus wont take much to make that kit work..

Ask for the measurement from 3SX, they are good people to deal with, i'm sure they will be happy to help..

 

[MDK87]

What measurements do you need? I'm going to help out a 3KGT guy now.

 

[blackvr]

OMAD, I've come across a lot of genuine VR4 RS's in my time , and they were all the same setup. If I wanted to be serious about rear end setup, I would pull the large rubber bush from the end of the trailing arm, weld a steel block in its place, and adapt a rose joint/spherical bearing in its place. This would eliminate the rubber mount and allow for a lot more adjustability. In the real world though, I still reckon a delete lock up kit is a waste of time. And yes, just loop the hydraulic fittings on the front steering rack. That works fine ! ( PS you haven't upset me in the slightest ! I just call a spade a bloody excavator LOL!)

 

[MDK87]

Yeah I was thinking that ^ or weld it up like Jay said.
The only steering angle would be from movement in the rubber bushes.
Good thread!

 

[JayRome]

I have a quick cheap DIY idea if your all interested later on for a replacement AWS on the rear..... just waiting for parts to arrive for another car, which might work...

 

[eternazr]

Hi guys, my 4ws has something sus goin on, when im driving I feel a jolt or wobble in the rear end, Im putting it down to the 4ws starting to bug out on me, can someone please tell me whats going on, and why people choose to remove it, witout fixing it, cheers

 

[blackvr]

eternazr, I would be climbing underneath, and checking the suspension pivot bush,bolts. They are an eccentric adjustment, and often come loose and make the rear end feel "wobbly" on accel/decel . look for any rust marks, where bolts and their fastening nuts have loosened. It's unlikely that the jolt/wobble to be caused by the 4WS setup

 

[eternazr]

Hi Guys, I unbolted the rack tie rod ends, and have cable tied them up for the moment, It eliminated the wobble/ jolting straight away, But the it still feels a little sus in the rear end sometimes, but not as much as before, I did check bolts and bushes, and they seem to be fine.Can someone please tell me if there is a hydraulic actuator in the steering set up that was cause the jolt, cheers

 

[turbovr4]

Hi Eternazr,
The rear rack is just connected to the front rack with those two hydraulic pipes because the front rack is also the controlling valve for the rear rack. I found that out on my Eterna when the front rack blew a seal so to get mine rekitted it was an extra $100 over a normal rack rekit. The only time I had a shuddering in the rear end on mine was when my tailshaft uni joint seized, under hard acceleration or deceleration one of the back wheels felt like it was shuddering.