Clutch Issues

[VIN18M]

Ok guys, so I've just installed an Exedy heavy duty cusion button in the GTi which I had built for me a few months ago.
It has a 1,000kg pressure plate with an 8 puck disc and spring centre. The Exedy part number for the pressure plate is hyk-6451hdcb, which is also listed for FWD Sonata.
Now I've had the same issue with this (part no) pressure plate in the past, and ended up going for an RPM heavy duty. Due to the power I'm making I've had this one built for me and was ensured it will fit and work on the GTi - it was also tested before I picked it up and all measurements are identical to the clutch we've replaced.
So we've fired everything back in the car today and bled the clutch but can't seem to get gears? The issue seems to be that there is a heap of play in the fork at the slave cylinder and the clutch doesn't seem to be disengaging?
A mate of mine suggested the slave cylinder needs to be replaced and it may have worked on the previous clutch but due to the additional tension on the new pressure plate it's not coping. The slave cylinder doesn't leak any fluid at all and we replaced all of the seals and sleeves in it about 2 years ago, so this theory doesn't seem to make sense.
Its almost like the pivot point at the bearing isn't correct, could the carrier bearing be different/wrong?
It's so strange, as I said I've had this problem with this model Exedy in the past, but as this wasn't an off the shelf clutch, was made up specifically for me using Exedy parts and I was assured it would fit a GTi (which I specified) I thought it would be fine.
Any ideas?

 

[4piknup]

Post a pic of where the arm is positioned in the bell housing window.
you may need to shim your pivotball

 

[Benzo4gT]

Check the position of the clutch fork, if it's not in the center then you'll need to shim the pivot ball.

 

[VIN18M]

Thanks guys, will try and get some pics up tomorrow.
Can you explain what you mean by shimming the pivot ball? And why this would only be required with the new clutch?
Sorry, sound like a newbie now...

 

[4piknup]

Dont know. If finger height is different, clutch plate thickness is different, flywheel has been machined.
I dont know how to check it before fitting gearbox either. You would need to measure throw out bearing height or something.
some careful measuring would pick a difference.

 

[Benzo4gT]

Easy as pie to do, but it's the R & R of the box that's the PITA.

I shimmed mine with a couple of washers to about the thickness of a head bolt washer. Unfortunately you won't know if it's in the "ideal" position till the box is in, but washer a few mm thick should get it about right.

 

[VIN18M]

Cool, will that get rid of the slop in the fork I currently have also?
This box is a nightmare to get in and out, but if it has to come out then so be it.

 

[evo-gsr]

Gearbox removal and replace is the best job EVER :blink:

 

[VIN18M]

Looking at this more closely, I'm not sure I'll be able to shim it enough to make up the difference I currently have. There is about an inch of play in the fork.

 

[4piknup]

Teamrip and rre put this together about pivot ball shimming. There is also a pic of how it looks if it needs a shim
http://www.teamrip.com/when_why_and_how_to_shim_pivot_ball_info.html

 

[VIN18M]

Thanks Jack, I actually had a look at that this morning on the way to work, very good read there.

I've called the guys that supplied my clutch and they've suggested checking that the clip that holds the thrust bearing to the fork is on the correct way, and if that's all good to add a 3mm spring washer behind the pivot ball.

Apparently this is an issue that constantly comes up with early model Evo's and GSRs and the spring washer solves the problem. The only other way to solve this is to buy a new clutch fork - wouldn't know where to start looking for one of those!

Still doesn't explain why I didn't have this problem with the clutch that was in the car. The explanation I was given was that it's due to the positioning of the new pressure plate prongs compared to the old clutch. Where the old clutch will be flat once tightened, the new ones will be pressed in more creating more distance between the pressure plate and the thrust bearing.

 

[khubner1]

meek has new ones

 

[evo-gsr]

The last 2 clutch kits I have bought have come with a washer in the kit.

And as above..Meek sell new forks.

 

[EVO-00X]

Jacks Transmissions has a Youtube video you can watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omAw-TgCYzM

 

[3VOLUTIONIST]

More exedy issues..
I had this problem when I put an Edexy HD kit into my car.
Had to shim the pivot ball to get it to diengage the clutch. However doing so meant that when you adjust the master cylinder rod to take the slack out of the pedal, you give it so much throw that the clutch plate springs contact the pressure plate fingers. Whole thing's a mess.

 

[evo-gsr]

Exedy suck dead dogs knobs...will never use one again. Had trouble with them numerous times.

 

[3VOLUTIONIST]

Neither will I. My clutch has never disengaged fully since I installed it 18 months ago. Car drags forward if you redline it with the clutch depressed and in first. So it's probably slowly wrecking my synchros too :/

 

[Benzo4gT]

F#%k that! How can a major manufacturer a Not have it's finger on the pulse......and b Make a range of products for the performance market and not test it out in the real world?..............just sayin'

Is 4G63 a swear word in their R&D department?

 

[VIN18M]

Saw that video, it's the exact problem I'm having, the fork is hitting the bellhousing.

I've heard bad things about exedy in the past too, as I mentioned I had the same problem with disengagement the last time I bought a pressure plate with the same part number - ended up taking it out and selling it. Never had a problem with the RPM I put in after that but it wouldn't handle the power.

I thought most of the issues with the exedys were with them failing, I.e. The springs stuffing up in the clutch plates?
Anyway, I have a new slave cylinder arriving this week as mine is slightly leaking and I'll be shimming the pivot ball over the weekend and will see how I go.
3VOLUTIONIST it sounds like you've spaced the pivot ball too far from what I've been reading.

 

[3VOLUTIONIST]

Saw that video, it's the exact problem I'm having, the fork is hitting the bellhousing.

I've heard bad things about exedy in the past too, as I mentioned I had the same problem with disengagement the last time I bought a pressure plate with the same part number - ended up taking it out and selling it. Never had a problem with the RPM I put in after that but it wouldn't handle the power.

I thought most of the issues with the exedys were with them failing, I.e. The springs stuffing up in the clutch plates?
Anyway, I have a new slave cylinder arriving this week as mine is slightly leaking and I'll be shimming the pivot ball over the weekend and will see how I go.
3VOLUTIONIST it sounds like you've spaced the pivot ball too far from what I've been reading.

I shimmed it with a 2mm washer. And if that's too much, how come it only barely disengages. If i extend the master cylinder rod to give it more throw (to totally disengage it) then the pressure plate fingers contact the clutch plate springs. I dont know who engineered their 4G63 clutch assemblies, but they f*cked up.

On a related note, what does everyone else use in their 4G93's? There doesnt seem to be many kits out there from reputable sellers (not chinese junk off ebay). As far as I know, theres Exedy, Clutch Industries, Extreme Clutch, OS Giken (multi plate assemblies for 4G63's), and Cusco (single plate assemblies with a custome flywheel for 4G63's).