dyno tuning a vr4 with a stock ecu - any point?

[LETSGO]

As the topic above says, i think i need to tune the vr4 as it's starting to run a bit rich and i just feel like it needs a tune...

still got the same mods as it had a year ago - 3" turbo back zorst, stock size k&n filter with a partition and just under 1bar boost

stock afm and i've got the older non eprom ecu

will a dyno tuner be able to do anything at all?

and if the answer is yes, can someone recommend a decent dyno tuner who knows their mitsus?

 

[jett]

LOL - dude you can't tune a stock ecu...

the only way to do anything with the stock one is have it chipped. Ie. put a new eeprom in it - like a powerchip or the like. But that is a waste of time and money.

If you want to see serious power and drivability increases get a full standalone aftermarket ECU...

A general consensus on good ecu's for VR4's -

Wolf3D
Adaptronic
Haltech
Link

Autronic and Motec are excellent but very expensive

Don't bother with a microtech they are terrible

It all depends on your application and budget - and if you aren't going to tune it yourself then what ECU your local tuner recommends

Jez

 

[maccavr4]

microtech arnt terrible if they are tunned right i am ru nning one and have had it tunned right it is great

and if they are so terrible why do rotorys use them and get massive power and low 1/4mile times

it all comes down to the tunner

 

[JSTYLE]

LOL - dude you can't tune a stock ecu...

the only way to do anything with the stock one is have it chipped. Ie. put a new eeprom in it - like a powerchip or the like. But that is a waste of time and money.

If you want to see serious power and drivability increases get a full standalone aftermarket ECU...

A general consensus on good ecu's for VR4's -

Wolf3D
Adaptronic
Haltech
Link

Autronic and Motec are excellent but very expensive

Don't bother with a microtech they are terrible

It all depends on your application and budget - and if you aren't going to tune it yourself then what ECU your local tuner recommends

Jez

LOL you sound like you have no idea at all.. I run a chipped ecu and guess what it runs 12.44 @ 112mph on stock 16g and motor!!! But i guess thats pretty terrible for a stock ecu isnt it?

Do you actually comprehend how a microtech works? Its exactly like the above mentioned ecu. Its more of a budget, entry level ecu. It has the same tuning characteristics as the above without as many features or as many incriments in tuning.

Oh and my 187kw 12.4 sec EVO isnt really serious.. im just toying with it.. LOL

Jon

PS: to answer your question.. yes you can tune the car, ie.. play with mixtures check your settings and reset other things. Recommendation would be AFAS in croydon south.

 

[LETSGO]

thanks jon, that's what i was after

i'm not chasing power, as i just want to make sure it's tuned right and running nicely as i'm looking at selling the car shortly so i want to make sure the buyer is getting quality

you wouldn't know what afas charge per hour do you?

 

[GSRSOL]

Oh and my 187kw 12.4 sec EVO isnt really serious.. im just toying with it.. LOL

i think you can stop drilling that into everyones head now Jon! Thats the 50 millionth time youve mentioned it.

 

[Skuz]

But that is a waste of time and money.

i dont agree with that mate theres that vr4 on galantvr4.org.au that ran a 12.3 using a chip from meek and with the 2g afm. ecuedit.com can write chips taylor made for diffrent sized injectors/afm/etc . all for the fraction of the price.

then again ive been toying with the idea of running a megasquirt which costs about 250 dollars landed + a map sensor. ALOT of assing around though but the savings in cost are there.

www.megasquirt.info

SKUZ

 

[jett]

JSTYLE - you didn't even read what i wrote :roll: knob

i said you can't tune a stock ecu (which you can't) - unless you get it chipped which is what I said...........

I tune my own cars - and have tuned the following ecu's so don't tell me what I do and don't know:

Haltech
Microtech
Ecuedit
Adaptronic
Wolf3D

I have tuned my VR4 engine with the adaptronic - it gets over 200kws atfw on 15psi and will run an easy mid 13... All for under $1000 installed and tuned..

So i think I have the experience to say what I said above... Have you even driven a properly tuned car??

It is my opinion that Microtech are useless as compared to similar priced ecu on the market - and as far as chipped ecu's go for the time and money spent i think going full standalone is far better than using a chip as a stepping stone...

So piss off!

BTW megasquirts are good if you just want to play around with aftermarket management...

 

[jett]

and if they are so terrible why do rotorys use them and get massive power and low 1/4mile times

Because they are the cheapest ecu with 4 ignition outputs..

They are shit ECU's for the cost of the units. I had to spend hours and hours tuning the car below, instead of a simple 2 or 3 compared to if it ran a decient ECU.

 

[JSTYLE]

Jett:

200kw at the wheels and runs 15psi will run mid 13s all day ?

Im sure thats a well tuned car.. NOT.. with about 170-180kw you will easily get a VR4 into the high 12s.

And yes i have driven well tuned chipped/aftermarket cars.. One being a 300kw Del Sol CRX that runs the factory ECU with a chip in it.. has run 11.6 @ 130mph... etc...

In regards to chips and a microtech.. seriously.. why would you pay them out? I know of so many 4 cylinders running VERY good times with a microtech.. sure if i could afford a motec i would definately get one.. but at the end of the day its the end users budget that influences what sort of ecu the cars has..

But for me... im actually seeing how fast a stock turbo/motor/ecu EVO could go.. and i havent found the limitations of it yet.

Jon

 

[MADVR4]

hmmmm it does all depend on what u want..... but yes u need a chipped ecu to tune properly atleast....

jon didnt u make 240kw with jstyle??? u ran 13.1 i believe??? haha jokes...

ive heard alot of bad things about microtech.... but really it all comes down to the tuner!!!! i have wolf3d which i think if a good computer! but i also got it coz i know my mech can tune it really well....

anywayz my 2 cents

 

[MADEVO]

I think he has a FWD cc lancer jon.

 

[jett]

Again Jon - you haven't even read the post - You started these forums I though at least you might be able to READ.

My car is a FWD CC Lancer -

it gets over 200kws atfw

hence the higher 1/4 mile times. And besides the 400m doesn't have anything to do with the tune really - 200+ fwkw is very decent from a stock standard VR4 engine complete with TDO5-14b... Even you must recognise that Mr 187kW evo.

As well as this you haven't even understood what my point is about Microtechs - don't worry I'll get to your beloved Chips. If you knew anything about tuning a real ECU you would understand what I mean. Its OK though I'll explain it for you...

ANY aftermarket ECU will run an engine - how could it not - thats what it was designed to do - otherwise none would be sold would they?

Its to do with the poor user interface and terrible map point resolution. They are far more difficult and time consuming to tune WELL and get properly tuned smooth AFR's when compared to other ECU's (even those which are cheaper). This is why many tuning shops simply refuse to tune Microtech's. Its not worth the effort to tune these things for many businesses because they cannot charge enough money to make it worth while. So therefore the car owner loses out becuase what they thought would be a cheap ECU turns out to be either poorly tuned or expensive to tune well. THIS IS MY POINT ABOUT MICROTECH's - There are other ecu's on the market which are actually cheaper and far better quality in terms of features and map resolution.

Now about eeprom chips - same deal yes of course they will run a car well of they are tuned properly but most of the time people buy an off the shelf chip designed for "the VR4" - modified cars are all different and hence these off the shelf chips have to be tuned with so much safetly factor that the power loss through too rich AFR's is ridiculous. And the ones that have been tuned properly really do cost too much money for what you are getting. For the money spent on a chip and tune you can just about buy a full standalone ecu with infintely more features and the potential to run the engine so much better than a once off dyno tune - then seeya later out the door. Don't bother coming back if you change your modifications because we have to make a new chip. Who wants to pay time and time again for the same thing...

I hope you now understand better how engine management works...

Thanks Jez

 

[MADEVO]

200kw is awesome don't get me wrong but would be more impresive if it was at 4 wheels instead of 2!
Microtech will get u figures if that is what u want???? but from what i have heard they aren't very good if u want to drive you car everyday in every condition. Hence those rotor cannons use it coz they are pigs anyways.

 

[jett]

Yes of course - 4 wheels would be awesome - believe me i would love an evo. but my car has cost me $9000 including the buying the car orignially - AND I haven't been beaten yet by a car that was cheaper than mine so lets make power to cost ratio and I think I win. 8) I am a uni student so money is scarce and I think I have done pretty well with my budget..

MADEVO if you read what i said above - the only reason rotorys use Microtech's is because they are the cheapest ECU with 4 ignition outputs which is what you need to run rotors - they cannot run wasted spark like us... I'm not 100% sure but i think to get 4 ignition outputs on any "better" ecu will cost upwards of $2000

Besides someone who drives a rotary deserves to have a Microtech if you ask me - yes they are pigs.

 

[JSTYLE]

In regards to Microtech.. maybe its different where you are but in melbourne there are more then 20 shops that will tune a microtech and ive seen nothing but really good results.. I know tuners who can tune a microtech perfect in about 2hrs!!! For me personally ive had one yes.. it was a good budget ecu.. but it had the shittest cold start features..

In regards to chips.. you can tune a chip while its live like a normal aftermarket ecu.. they do have a tuning program in which you can see a matrix and change fuel/ignition tables etc.. That was what i was getting at, its called an 'emulator'. Hence its soo much like an aftermarket ecu yet it still retains the stock setting so if you happen to get 'EPA'd or defected' it will pass.

TunerPro RT for Mitsubishi's:

Below is a Honda Eeprom Chip:
(with thanks from James)

http://blkcrx.hondata.com.au/blkcrx/rpm/1500.jpg

There you go.

Jon

 

[jett]

Yes but when you pay for an EEPROM writer... And EEPROM eraser and an EEPROM emulator - then you are already looking at over $500 easy. Then you have to pay to get bayed and chipped - etc... Its all about what you get for you money Jon... If you absolutely want an EEPROM chip then for sure buy one - but if you save for another 6 months you can get something that will be far more satisfying in the end...

Also anyone can tune a car in 2 hours when you have thousands of map files on your computer which you just load up a base map and fine tune... But to tune from scratch - its totally different story.

 

[JSTYLE]

Yes but when you pay for an EEPROM writer... And EEPROM eraser and an EEPROM emulator - then you are already looking at over $500 easy. Then you have to pay to get bayed and chipped - etc... Its all about what you get for you money Jon... If you absolutely want an EEPROM chip then for sure buy one - but if you save for another 6 months you can get something that will be far more satisfying in the end...

That is true.. here are some prices:

Haltech E6X PNP with adapter for 4G63 E1-E3: $1300
Microtech Ecu wth flying lead: $1100

Eeprom Socketing + Emulator + Chips + Socket + writer: ~$350

In regards to base maps.. most ecu's including microtech do come with a base map.,. i know my vr4 had a base map..

Jon

 

[MADVR4]

at the end of the day.... a standalone ecu is alwayz gonna be better..... thats all there is to it....

more features for a start and better tuning ability

jon if standard ecu's were the shit then why do they even bother with standalone....

u guyz will just go around in circles!! yes jon u have done well for standard ecu... and yes jett shouldnt have said that standard ecu's arent tunable...

but jett is right.... if u wanna do it once and do it right... get a standalone ecu and u will make bigger power!!!

why bother going around in circles

cheers Grant-

 

[jett]

Bahaha - yeah its true.

Perhaps I should clarify - when I say stock ECU I don't mean a chipped ECU...

As long as we are all friends in the end...