E85 fuels

[iluszn]

So. I have heard of this E85 (85% ethanol, 15% unleaded) fuel and from everything I have read its not recommended to run in a car without a particular convertor for $400.

However, It does offer 100 - 103RON.

Anyone run this fuel or know anyone running it?

Pros
Cons
etc etc etc.

I have run the E10 fuels but E85 is a whole new ball game and costs some 40cents per litre less.


USEFUL LINKS:
http://www.manildra.com.au/e85/
http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/questions.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuOs1yap8mU

http://www.galantvr4.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Board=newbie&Number=667092&page=4&fpart=1
http://www.galantvr4.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=628600&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
http://www.galantvr4.org/ubbthreads...pe=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post667831
http://www.galantvr4.org/ubbthreads...pe=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post675633

 

[brisvr4]

Here is some reading material for you
If it ever gets up here I'm all for it!!
P.S, you will need bloody big injectors for it

http://www.galantvr4.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB2&Number=675633&Forum=,All_Forums,&Words=%2Be85&Searchpage=1&Limit=25&Main=675633&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post675633
http://www.galantvr4.org/ubbthreads...pe=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post667831

http://www.galantvr4.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=628600&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

 

[iluszn]

Cheers

posted in first thread.. By the sounds of the fuel.. These are what sound like the facts so far.

Fuel economy not as great
Must run bigger injectors and fuel pump (33% larger pump/tank)
2/3 energy of PULP
Cost of fuel is around 40c/l Less compared to PULP
Must change fuel filter regularly for first few tanks to clear out gunk
Eating tanks/drying lines is a myth

 

[olly]

seems like it's not suitable for a daily driver but looks promising as an alternative to race fuels.

 

[peasoup]

Its sorta like setting your car up for methanol

 

[iluszn]

Well.. not that it is not suitable for a daily driver, from the reading i have done it sounds like that it requires tuning to get some sort of economy out of it. Its not recommended that you simply just pour it in and expect your car to run well.

 

[D3bb4]

I don't think the eating up lines is a myth (especially considering how diversely they teach that they do). Rubber and ethanol don't mix very well.

 

[iluszn]

hrmmm.. From peoples experience and that is what i am going by, it is, and have a watch of the youtube vid i put up. They couldnt find any more wear and tear on hoses than normal. And people have run E85 on old rubber hoses without issue.

But that is there experience not my personal one.

 

[WindeX]

Can we even get it anywhere over here yet? I heard/read there was a place in Sydney where you could buy it, but didnt think it was out for general supply yet.

 

[iluszn]

How about running E85 in a modified skyline and passing an emissions test Good read, worth the time.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Guilt-toy-Running-E85-t239271.html

 

[jase]

Tell me if I'm wrong but I've heard about it absorbing water is it sits in the tank for a while?

As in, you basically need to fill it up/use it frequently otherwise it will fark out your engine..

 

[iluszn]

Does this help answer any question?

To avoid engine stall due to "slugs" of water in the fuel lines interrupting fuel flow, the fuel must exist as a single phase. The fraction of water that an ethanol-gasoline fuel can contain without phase separation increases with the percentage of ethanol.[29]. This shows, for example, that E30 can have up to about 2% water. If there is more than about 71% ethanol, the remainder can be any proportion of water or gasoline and phase separation will not occur. However, the fuel mileage declines with increased water content. The increased solubility of water with higher ethanol content permits E30 and hydrated ethanol to be put in the same tank since any combination of them always results in a single phase. Somewhat less water is tolerated at lower temperatures. For E10 it is about 0.5% v/v at 70 F and decreases to about 0.23% v/v at -30 F.

 

[brisvr4]

If anyone is up for trying E85 just make sure that you change your fuel filter at least twice shortly after you start running it. This is because the Ethanol tends to pick up any crap in the fuel lines and it will clog the filter.

 

[iluszn]

yes i have heard that the US guys change there fuel filters weekly for a few weeks. As ethanol is a good degreaser and cleans your tank/lines of ****.

 

[doommachine]

I for one will be running E85 as soon as it's available. I read some threads on the eating of the fuel lines, apparently it depends on the composition of the hoses - for example, pre 2002 (I think) Nissans all use a type of material that gets eaten through very quickly. Mitsubishis fuel lines don't have that problem at all ( I believe since the early 80's? Can't remember).

 

[lefty]

Sifnt link the gto thread instead of the skyline

http://www.3si.org/forum/f1/707awhp-620awtq-stock-heads-stock-cams-pump-gas-431072/

 

[blackvr]

Guys, I have been using E85 for 3 months here in Adelaide. I cant speak more highly of the "very high" octane E85 as a performance fuel. I reckon it is equivalent to around 110 octane. N/A engines respond well, but nowhere near as well as turbo motors. If you have a performance turbo motor, then I reckon it is almost mandatory to use E85!

We are lucky in having a reasonable availibilty in Adelaide. So far I have converted about 8 of my customers to this fuel ( as well as my own racecar). So far so good after 3 months.

Think methonal when tuning ethanol. Ethanol takes 4 to 5 times the heat energy to evaporate compared to petrol. Ethanol also combusts 100 degrees cooler than petrol. Consequently, my race engines have NEVER run as cool as when on E85. On the downside, it is difficult starting engines when temps are less than 10 degrees ambient. I have to give the engine a petrol prime when temps are lower than 5 degrees. Once fired , no problems what so ever.

Most of the turbo engines I haved tuned respond to 4 or 5 degrees more of spark advance. When I say respond I mean big time. And with the late model evo reflashing and logging software, I hardly see any knock count , even with 5 degrees of spark advance and 25 psi boost.

I tuned our Evo8 RS tarmac spec rally car this week. I usually makes 240kw on 24 psi running Elf race fuel. Note that with continual dyno runs, and heat soak builds up, 1kw loss per run occurs. I was using a Mainline AWD dyno on a 24 degree day. We have an Autronic ecu in the Evo8, and use a Link knock unit to detect knocking. Any way, after a base Elf run, I drained the tank, stuck E85 in, replaced the stock 560cc injectors with 910cc Siemens units , and "fiddled" around with the mapping. We were totally gobstruck with a very repeatable 290kw at the wheels, on the same 24 psi boost. I was pretty impressed to say the least. The injectors were maxxing out at 94% duty cycle, so we do need bigger injectors.

Before any one jumps up and down about stock turbos not flowing that amount of power at that boost.... this is similar to results I have witnessed on other turbo cars running E85. Now remember, ethanol contains roughly 15% oxygen by weight. So when it is oxidized ie combusted, it is really a form of chemical supercharging. And the hi evaporation needs of E85 sucking heat out of the combustion chamber keep cylinder head temps down. I reckon that in itself is a form of chemical intercooling. I really cant detect any form of knock at moderate boost levels. In fact I can watch the power drop off if i crank in too much spark advance.

So dont listen too much to the urban myths and "dramas' associated with ethanol. The only real hassle i have had is trouble firing it in very cold weather. Other than that, it truly is a magnificent performance fuel. You do need roughly 25 % more by volume to reach the eqivalent AFR's of petrol, However that still works out cheaper than 98PULP. Even though I havent had any issues with seals and hoses, it is not to say that other vehicle makes will have an issue.... so tread carefully maybe ??

The best thing you can do if you want it is create a demand and lobby your local supplier of bio fuels for E85. They are all supplied by CSR in Queensland, and they keep local stocks of 100% ethanol to then blend into E10 fuel. I have been in regular contact with our State Manager of Ennffue ( biofuel reseller). He says it basically comes down to them making a profit .... and at the moment its not really happening. Sales are sluggish - it must only be us race guys buying it. I believe United Fuel also offer biofuel interstate. So , as I have had results well in excess of expectation, and the fuel is so cheap, I have a vested interest in encouraging its continuing use !!

Mike

 

[peasoup]

That's awesome!!

A few guys in Melbourne have been getting great results with GM L98 engines.

 

[nk]

Does this help answer any question?

Quote:
To avoid engine stall due to "slugs" of water in the fuel lines interrupting fuel flow, the fuel must exist as a single phase. The fraction of water that an ethanol-gasoline fuel can contain without phase separation increases with the percentage of ethanol.[29]. This shows, for example, that E30 can have up to about 2% water. If there is more than about 71% ethanol, the remainder can be any proportion of water or gasoline and phase separation will not occur. However, the fuel mileage declines with increased water content. The increased solubility of water with higher ethanol content permits E30 and hydrated ethanol to be put in the same tank since any combination of them always results in a single phase. Somewhat less water is tolerated at lower temperatures. For E10 it is about 0.5% v/v at 70 F and decreases to about 0.23% v/v at -30 F.

simply put, water will separate from the ethanol mixture in cold temperatures. this certainly wouldn't be a good idea for a daily driven vehicle, especially in winter.