Evo 1 Front LSD into my Galant VR4 Transmission (TRE Stage 2)

[alansupra94]

Also, could you show pictures of the "crown bearing shaft/end"? I am not 100% what you are talking about.

Thanks,
Alan

 

[Rockabilly]

Meek Performance has told me of billet ends being made of better steel.

The last one broke powering out of a corner, so I'm over these LSDs.
Cheers

 

[alansupra94]

So this is inside of a Galant VR4 w5m33? I just found out my transmission is more than likely a DSM 1G w5m33 (not sure if that helps).

I also don't seem to understand EXACTLY what is breaking. Can you show me in this diagram?

Or you can use this link:
http://www.vfaq.com/...nnyrebuild.html

Or this transmission manual:
http://www.mivec.co....rbox_Manual.pdf

 

[micky_vr4]

I think it's on the other side of the front diff (number 55)...

 

[alansupra94]

I think it's on the other side of the front diff (number 55)...

Ah so the actual diff breaks where the axle goes into (and holds thats bearing)? I wonder if that could be reinforced. I sent an email to meek performance to see what they know.

 

[EVO-00X]

Count the number of teeth on your oem NON LSD GVR4/DSM front diff crownwheel as you will need to get a viscous LSD crownwheel with the same amount of teeth.
Aldo also mentioned earlier that the hole in the middle of/ and the bolt pattern of the oem non LSD crownwheel is too small and will NOT bolt onto the viscous LSD! (see pic)
You will either need to machine the OEM crownwheel to fit the viscous LSD, or buy a new LSD front diff crownwheel.
Say your front diff crownwheel has 58 teeth. You can buy a new 58 tooth front LSD diff crownwheel with part number MD742534 (aka MD770498) from Amayama for $176 + shipping.
Work out whether that price is more cost efficient to buy a new crownwheel, or to have your existing one machined to suit the viscous LSD.

Also be careful. You guys in the US have 2 different types of DSM transmissions that had the 58 tooth crownwheel in it. Depending which crownwheel you use, you will need the correct matching 15 tooth output pinion as well. I got caught by Jacks Transmissions before when ordering parts from the US. At least here GSR Lancer 58 tooth is easy to recognise and get. Over there, you guys have 1G and 2G 58 tooth crownwheels with output pinions and they ARE NOT interchangeable. You have to use a matching set or the teeth wont mesh properly and it will pit the output pinion on an angle that you cant fit the centre diff on it.

If I were you, if you need 58 tooth then I'd get a new viscous crownwheel from Amayama. Wait til its delivered, then check whether your existing 15 tooth 1G DSM output pinion meshes in well with the crownwheel teeth. If it doesnt, then you will need the 2G DSM 15 tooth output pinion. Basically check your output pinion compared to the other pic I've included. That DSM output pinion in the pic is the perfect match for the 58-tooth LSD crownwheel MD742534. Found out the hard way myself but it all worked out in the end

 

[alansupra94]

Count the number of teeth on your oem NON LSD GVR4/DSM front diff crownwheel as you will need to get a viscous LSD crownwheel with the same amount of teeth.
Aldo also mentioned earlier that the hole in the middle of/ and the bolt pattern of the oem non LSD crownwheel is too small and will NOT bolt onto the viscous LSD! (see pic)
You will either need to machine the OEM crownwheel to fit the viscous LSD, or buy a new LSD front diff crownwheel.
Say your front diff crownwheel has 58 teeth. You can buy a new 58 tooth front LSD diff crownwheel with part number MD742534 (aka MD770498) from Amayama for $176 + shipping.
Work out whether that price is more cost efficient to buy a new crownwheel, or to have your existing one machined to suit the viscous LSD.

Also be careful. You guys in the US have 2 different types of DSM transmissions that had the 58 tooth crownwheel in it. Depending which crownwheel you use, you will need the correct matching 15 tooth output pinion as well. I got caught by Jacks Transmissions before when ordering parts from the US. At least here GSR Lancer 58 tooth is easy to recognise and get. Over there, you guys have 1G and 2G 58 tooth crownwheels with output pinions and they ARE NOT interchangeable. You have to use a matching set or the teeth wont mesh properly and it will pit the output pinion on an angle that you cant fit the centre diff on it.

If I were you, if you need 58 tooth then I'd get a new viscous crownwheel from Amayama. Wait til its delivered, then check whether your existing 15 tooth 1G DSM output pinion meshes in well with the crownwheel teeth. If it doesnt, then you will need the 2G DSM 15 tooth output pinion. Basically check your output pinion compared to the other pic I've included. That DSM output pinion in the pic is the perfect match for the 58-tooth LSD crownwheel MD742534. Found out the hard way myself but it all worked out in the end

Okay I will definitely check.

I mean....I guess the question is, what is the point if the VLSDs are that weak and break very easily? I am still not fully grasping HOW that part breaks off when inside of a DSM transmission versus an EVO transmission.

 

[Rockabilly]

Alan they are known to break the crown end bearing collar with big hp & the std
hollow front diff, mech lsd & Quaife lsd doesn't break the collar with the same hp.
The hardening treatment & the 90 deg machined corner makes the weak point that corner.
My 2 that broke were being strained a bit more than normal because I weld the
centre diff to run constant wheel drive. But a mech clutch lsd & a Quaife lsd
handle the extra strain if they are used in a welded constant wheel drive setup.
You are manual, so you can run any of the 3 lsds or hollow. The vlsd being the least
prefered one for rally & that must say something !
Autos can run hollow, vlsd or the Quaife, but not the mech clutch lsd. The hollow &
the Quaife lsd being the stronger. I personaly like the Quaife for it's lighter
steering at low speed & it biases the steering progressively in corners.
I'm throwing another auto in next week with the front Quaife, not welded & using a
hollow on the rear for a touch of oversteer fun.
I don't know what hp you have & how you're gonna drive it. Your choice.
Cheers

 

[alansupra94]

Alan they are known to break the crown end bearing collar with big hp & the std
hollow front diff, mech lsd & Quaife lsd doesn't break the collar with the same hp.
The hardening treatment & the 90 deg machined corner makes the weak point that corner.
My 2 that broke were being strained a bit more than normal because I weld the
centre diff to run constant wheel drive. But a mech clutch lsd & a Quaife lsd
handle the extra strain if they are used in a welded constant wheel drive setup.
You are manual, so you can run any of the 3 lsds or hollow. The vlsd being the least
prefered one for rally & that must say something !
Autos can run hollow, vlsd or the Quaife, but not the mech clutch lsd. The hollow &
the Quaife lsd being the stronger. I personaly like the Quaife for it's lighter
steering at low speed & it biases the steering progressively in corners.
I'm throwing another auto in next week with the front Quaife, not welded & using a
hollow on the rear for a touch of oversteer fun.
I don't know what hp you have & how you're gonna drive it. Your choice.
Cheers

LOL you had a welded center diff? That causes a WHOLE ton of stress on the transmission especially the front diff.

My friend had this differential in his 700hp Evo 1 and for a month and never had a problem. Got rid of it since he went auto.

I am going to give it a whirl. I am also pretty sure rally guys don't like it since VLSD are not as quick and reactive as clutch-based differential.

 

[Rockabilly]

LOL you had a welded center diff? That causes a WHOLE ton of stress on the transmission especially the front diff.

Realy ;-)

I am going to give it a whirl. I am also pretty sure rally guys don't like it since VLSD are not as quick and reactive as clutch-based differential.

So he didn't want to use it in his auto & you scored it cheap hey ?
Cheers

 

[alansupra94]

Realy ;-)

So he didn't want to use it in his auto & you scored it cheap hey ?
Cheers

No, because he has a built IPT transmission and he uses it only for drag racing. I am pretty sure you can't use that differential in the auto regardless.

 

[Rockabilly]

Ok for my drag auto builds tho lol. Sort out the crown & you're done.
Cheers

 

[alansupra94]

Ok for my drag auto builds tho lol. Sort out the crown & you're done.
Cheers

So you can use this front diff in an auto 2G (DSM) transmission?

I learn something new everyday on this site. Thanks for all the help. Figured I could just give it a whirl. If it breaks, I have a backup transmission anyways. I will post back in a few weeks when I take it apart.

Thanks,
Alan

 

[Rockabilly]

Yes they fit in a 1g & 2g auto with a bit machined off the back to clear inside the case.
It's the long 1st & 2nd auto legs that loads the vlsd to break.
Also the auto crown faces away from the lsd. Manual faces back over the lsd.
So the strain is pretty bad in an auto. Hollow & Quaife handle it ok tho.
Cheers