Fuel upgrade

[Benzo4gT]

I need to upgrade my fuel system at some stage, the stocko one will probably do for regular driving, but an upgrade is needed.

I am totally confused by fleabay, it is evil. Aem wants $180 for a fuel rail, HKS is after $400+ for theirs.

I certainly will get an AEM fuel pump and at least a Tomei reg, but is there something I'm missing about hoses, pipes and fuel rails? How in F$%K can there be any difference between a generic

and a brand name aluminium rail? Hoses I can kind of understand, but if I didn't get them from fleabay I'd get them from repcocheap, and I imagine the quality would be the same quality.

Fittings? Hmm, still trying to figure out how someone could F$%k up a piece of aluminium, do the generic ones leak or explode?

How do you know you are getting a legit product? FAAAARK!

 

[MDK87]

I know this is gonna sound dumb but in my experience with cheap vs brand name parts, things just generally feel more quality.
Like, threads a nice and clean on a quality item, not all munched up from not using the correct technique (high production speed). Holes are drilled in the correct spots, and have been de-burred cleanly. The pillow ball joints don't wear out quickly etc. Things are just consistent and fit well together.
Having said that, I'm speaking generically about the really nasty Chinese stuff.
AEM is still half decent. I don't think I'd be paying the additional $220 just for a different brand, unless I really preferred the HKS item based on aesthetics or something else irrelevant, like the sound of an SSQV. Haha

 

[Ross Cox]

What figures are you looking at. OEM rail will handle bigger volume injectors easy. 225 walbro will maintain pressure. I have EVO 560c injectors and a Walbro with 175kw at the wheels, OEM rail and regulator.
Cheers
Roos

 

[evo-gsr]

I agree with Ross...not needed for your car Ben.

 

[brisvr4]

I ran 1450 injectors on a stock rail with zero supply issues. Unless you want a new rail for the look I would upgrade fittings etc before you touch it.
The cheap AN fittings are prone to leak. I buy mine through Motorsport accessories in northgate. Decent prices and good product.

 

[Benzo4gT]

Thanks heaps for the replies guys, I was kinda getting frustrated at being so close to getting the Pile of R on the road. Good to hear some first hand info on fuel setup, I'll just grab a good pump and reg and it should be

relatively safe to boost. The big boy engine is not assembled so the runner I have in atm will be the guinea pig AND I realised today that my setup is similar to soldave's so the ecu I bought off him should run close to where I need

to be, I'll just have to tweak a few things.

I think my shout of triumph will be heard in most of the eastern side of Australia when I get it finished!

What figures are you looking at. OEM rail will handle bigger volume injectors easy. 225 walbro will maintain pressure. I have EVO 560c injectors and a Walbro with 175kw at the wheels, OEM rail and regulator.
Cheers
Roos

I'm aiming for around 200 with the stock engine, more for the built one. I have 1000cc injectors and will be on pump.

 

[EVOCPE]

My mate currently has 540hp from his EVO2 with 2.3 stroker, still running standard rail with 2000cc inj, standard fpr, standard plenum and standard TB, I really don't think its needed

 

[Benzo4gT]

Awesome! ↑

 

[evo-gsr]

My mate currently has 540hp from his EVO2 with 2.3 stroker, still running standard rail with 2000cc inj, standard fpr, standard plenum and standard TB, I really don't think its needed

Agreed....spend your money elsewhere Ben. Thats what I was getting at earlier.
A mate of mine has 352wkw and still uses standard fuel rail.

 

[EVO-00X]

I upgraded my fuel lines to 3/8" alloy tubing and an aftermarket fuel rail, Walbro 415 Lph fuel pump (E85 version), Aeromotive FPR etc. The other day I took off the fuel hose to empty a lot of the 6 month old fuel into a large can before going to refill the car up with fresh juice. Fook me!!!! when the key was turned to accessories, fuel was literally being pressured out like water from a hose! There's no way our little 4 bangers drink that much!!!

History has proven that you don't need to change the oem setup at all even with 500hp atw. Although, high boost corresponds to high fuel pressures and its best to invest in better quality reinforced fuel lines, rather than relying on 20 year old decayed rubber.

 

[MDK87]

Rob, did you just use that bendable alloy tube you can buy in coils from auto shops?

 

[White Knight]

Benny, aiming to be up tomorrow. Call you tonight champion!

 

[Benzo4gT]

Awesome dude!

 

[EVO-00X]

Rob, did you just use that bendable alloy tube you can buy in coils from auto shops?

Yep. I went shopping at Summit Racing and got 3/8" alloy tubing and a bunch of fittings for all sorts of ways I was thinking about attacking it. 3/8" is a little bit bigger diameter than factory hard lines, but I wanted to make sure that if I went to E85 fuel in future, I wouldn't have to worry about installing an external surge tank and pump setup. The release of the Walbro 415Lph E85 compatible fuel pump was the catalyst for the decision to go ahead with a higher flowing internal fuel pump and upgraded fuel line setup.

At first I used flared ends with a proper 37 degree AN flaring tool and proper tube sleeve and tube nut flare end fittings - all brand new. But there were small drips coming from the connections when I ran the car to test them. There was about a small drip every 5 seconds or so. After cutting the pipe and retrying with new flares again and fittings 3 x fkn times I threw the tools down and called Speedflow direct to see if they could be of some assistance.

The guy from Speedflow sort of chuckled and said if he had a dollar for every time he has heard that happen.... lol.
Anyway he put me onto their new compression fittings that use a crushed alloy olive. They are rated to 100psi. He told me they conducted several tests in the workshop and each was still holding at 100psi. They couldn't check how much more pressure they could hold because their gauge in the workshop only went to 100psi - hence, they say 100psi lol. I basically said that I'll be lucky to see 70psi, so I grabbed the part numbers for their alloy tube to AN compression fittings, fitted them up at both ends of the alloy tubing and wallah.... no leaks!!!.
Ive had the car at 30psi boost without any leaks so they're doing their job (+ 37psi base fuel pressure for GVR4 manual = Im seeing around 67psi or there abouts fuel pressure).

I also made a new bulkhead into the top of my fuel cradle so it is 6AN all the way through to the fuel pump. (you can see pics in my rides thread).

If you have a look at the attached pic you can see my Summit Racing order.... I didn't end up using half of this gear :unsure: . My brother came over and claimed the leftovers for himself the cheapskate :lol:

 

[4piknup]

Those olive style fittings are the go. I bet it would burst the tube before spitting a fitting off the end.
I was tempted to get the 37º flarer. But im more partial to the brake double flare type, but I dont think fittings are as easy to get in fuel line sizes

 

[EVO-00X]

I can double flare too, but alloy piping just isn't the same as steel brake lines. Alloy deforms easily and the flare can be scratched or weakened and even split or break quite easily.
When the compression fitting is compressed onto the outside of the piping its there solidly!!! You can never budge or remove it unless you cut the pipe off. I reckon its much stronger than a flared end when it comes to alloy tubing as the strength is in the compression of the fitting onto the outside circumference of the pipe. There's a much greater surface area its holding onto, rather than a thin flare. The only downside is if ever you need to undo them, you need to cut the pipe and use a new olive.
For steel brake lines though you wouldn't deviate from a 45 degree steel flare with tube fittings as they are a strong fit and can be undone in the future time and time again.