Gearbox issues

[Super Top]

I've picked up the gearbox because it was taking too long. He said it was almost finished but when I picked it up I got 2 boxes of loose parts.
I delivered it to a Mitsubishi performance specialist. At the moment a specialist is sorting out the centre diff. Apparently it is everything but easy.

As I've written before I needed almost everything new for the second gear.
But now it looks there's been a update to the synchro of the second gear.
On the photo below. The left one is the one that came out of the gearbox. The right one is the one that I ordered with the number that came out of ASA sourced on the chassis number.

The left one seems a bit larger. Does anyone know if this part has been revised? And or what number do I have to order to get the correct part?

Here's a photo of my reverse gear sprocket. It looks quite beaten up.

Hopefully a new one will sort out the problem of kicking out of gear under load.

In the meantime I've let them take a look at the engine. It made a ticking noise when mild accelerating when cold. At first they thought the conrod bearings needed replacing.
But when taking the engine apart they found out I had some serious crankwalk.
>>>Click to play video<<<

So now I have an almost totally rebuild engine. But still no gearbox.
Parts are in backorder for december.

 

[4piknup]

Dummy assemble the synchro to the slider and gear, does it look alright? Needs to be like a 1mm gap or something between ring land and gear.
You have the box, I cant remember what bit rubs on what.

Spewing you need to spend money, but good you get new bits and caught the trouble before it was disaster.

 

[4piknup]

Bwahaha. Thats not crank walk, thats crank marathon

 

[EVO-00X]

The one on the left is a full tooth single synchro. Not sure of the part number (possibly MD745889) but a GSR partly toothed single synchro design with part number MD742536 will work.
Yes Mitsubishi ASA will tell you that its a revised part because most cars including our GSR's came out with single synchro 2nd gears in the first few years then they changed to double synchro 2nd gear. All that needed changing was just the synchro as the 2nd gear already has holes in it ready to accept the inner double synchro ring (silver ring).
You will find the pic of the double synchro 2nd on the right is the same double synchro 2nd as used in later model GSR Lancers, EVO I-III's, RVR's etc. Its part number is MD746435.
You should be able to fit that double synchro onto your 2nd gear. Check that the 2nd gear you have has round holes in it that the slots the silver synchro in
Obviously use the double synchro 2nd if it fits your 2nd gear. I'm pretty sure it would.

That reverse idler gear is damaged and not useable. Replace it with a new one part number MD747890

 

[EVO-00X]

Also to help you out with the shim thicknesses and part numbers for the centre diff, here's a list I did up.
I also included pictures to show you what they look like.
The blue coloured cells with an "X" in it is just the part numbers I used for my gearbox when I was calculating thicknesses, so don't worry about that.

 

[Mr Gears]

When you drive until the countershaft completely drops, you will need another gearbox. There is too much damage.
That center diff is toast. I would save that until its the last one in the world before attempting to clean up any of it. (the damage would be caused by mismatch ratio, VCU will also be fried hence black oil).
It looks to me like you have a VR4 gearset or some combination of. This can happen (I sometimes mix things up a bit myself).
Actually I have documented a common W5M33 failure, that will confirm the same damage as yours.
http://mrgears.50webs.com/VR4.htm
I would stop buying parts and start looking for another gearbox - Be sure to confirm your Final Drive Ratio.

 

[Super Top]

The diff is toast indeed.
I found out that the previous owner had the gearbox rebuild once in the past. That company had used Eclipse 2G parts.

I don't know what they replaced back then exactly. Or what parts to replace to bring it back to original.
So I better follow the advice from Mr. Gears and now I'm searching for another HSGR manual gearbox.

I've been looking on the internet to find out the gear ratio's of the manual HSGR. But I find 2 different sets of numbers.
1st 2.750 3.083
2nd 1.684 1.684
3rd 1.160 1.115
4th 0.862 0.833
5th 0.666 0.666
Rev 3.166 3.166
Final 5.358 ?.???

Which one is the correct set of ratio's. The set on the right I have no final drive ratio of. What is the final drive ratio of a manual HSGR?
My gearbox code is W5M33-2-UMGL and has a viscous LSD.

Does anyone has a HSGR gearbox for sale?
Or are there any other options?
Can I use an evo3 gearbox and/or transfer box?

I've searched here on the forum. But I couldn't find a clear solution.

 

[EVO-00X]

RVR HSG Manual W5M332UMGL
1st gear ratio =3.083
2nd gear ratio =1.684
3rd gear ratio =1.115
4th gear ratio =0.833
5th gear ratio =0.666
Reverse gear ratio =3.166

Someone has definitely worked on that gearbox before:
"U" signifies 4.200 final drive (divide by 1.074 transfer ratio = 3.909 rear diff ratio)
"M" signifies Hyper Sports Gear models.
"G" signifies NON LSD gearbox.
"L" signifies 92-98 RVR, Sportswagon, Nimbus, Expo models

Because the gearbox has been worked on before you best double check what's actually in there first.
How many teeth are on the front diff crownwheel?

 

[MDK87]

-[SIZE=7pt] [/SIZE]not compatible with aftermarket upgrade centre differential units

DAMMIT!! :fuuuuu:

I thought we could use these 1.5 way clutch pack LSD's made for the E1-3.

http://www.kaazusa.com/lsd_mitsubishi.html

I guess it's better I know before I went and bought one.. Thanks Brett.

 

[Super Top]

Thanks!

I thought the Hyper Sports Gear versions were standard equipped with centre and rear LSD. Do I understand correctly that they only have standard rear LSD and centre is only a VCU.

On the site of Mr. Gears I also found gear ratios. There the RVR ratio's are the same as the Evo3's except for the 5th gear.

RVR HSG Manual W5M332UMGL
1st gear ratio =3.083
2nd gear ratio =1.684
3rd gear ratio =1.115
4th gear ratio =0.833
5th gear ratio =0.666
Reverse gear ratio =3.166

This list matches Eclipse 1 and 2G except for the final drive ratio. If I compare it to the chart on Mr. Gears site.
http://mrgears.50webs.com/W5M33_Ratio_Chart.htm

My centre diff is shot and beyond repair. I don't know what they exactly put in the gearbox in the past.

Looking for a replacement HSGR box would be the best solution. But who has one and is willing sell and send it to here. Offcourse I'll pay the shipping.

What are my other solutions if there are any?
VR4 internals? If I understand correct on Mr. Gears site. But It won't be an exact match in final drive ratio. What are the potential problems with that?

 

[EVO-00X]

GVR4 internals have different tooth thickness and helix and the sticks and centre diff are incompatible with most other W5M33 model internals. That's not saying yours is or isn't compatible with GVR4 internals, just that because its been worked on before and you mentioned something about someone throwing Eclipse parts in it, its best to be safe than sorry.
I will need some pics from you to continue and steer you in the right direction to be certain of what internals are currently in that gearbox right now.
1. How many teeth are on your front diff crownwheel? Is it 57, 58, 63, 64? How many notches are in the teeth? Photo is ideal as the spacing of the notches also helps me identify them.
2. Take a photo of the centre diff teeth. Are there any notches in the teeth? Take photo
3. Are there any notches in the intermediate/ input shaft teeth? Take photos of each shaft.
4. Are there any notches in the output pinion? Take photo (I assume its got 15 teeth as most do, but they can be different amongst 1G and 2G Eclipse internals for 57 and 58 tooth crownwheels).

 

[Mr Gears]

The gearbox on my website is a HSG RVR with VR4 gearset and HSG final drive. I only recommend this type of conversion if you are struggling financially or intent on continually destroying gearsets (better to destroy cheap gearsets).

If you don't want to melt another middle diff, then you must ensure that whatever gearbox or gearset you choose has a final drive that's a match for your rear diff (or change rear diff to suit new gearbox).
Evo and HSG use 3.9 rear and
Eclipse, GSR and SSG? will need 3.5 rear.

You can, use any gearset in any casing given the right combo of forks and shift rails etc, but you really need to know what your doing, or you will have problems.
I think you would be best off with a complete replacement gearbox, but I can see freight being an expensive factor.

 

[Mr Gears]

See if you can find an EVO gearbox somewhere in Europe. It will fit, just ensure your rear diff is 3.9
If the EVO box has viscous front LSD, then you need to ask Aldo (Rockabilly) how to get the RHF driveshaft to work (or swap in your open front diff).
Or, talk to EVO-00X to see if his mate in Germany (Matias) may be able to help you out.

 

[Super Top]

Thanks!

I'm not planning on destroying any more gearboxes. And I'm looking for a decent fix not especially a cheap one.
I've already spent around 4k € on a total engine rebuild because of major crankwalk. I'd like to do stuff the right way.
However I know I'll have to be realistic. Getting a box shipped from Australia to the Netherlands maybe isn't the most realistic thing.

So If I'm correct I can use an Evo gearbox without problems (except for the Front LSD mod). When the final drive ratio is the same. I only have shorter gears?
I understand the first letter of the gearbox code stands for the final drive ratio. So as long as it starts with the letter U I should be fine?
My original gearbox is W5M33-2-UMGL. So a Evo gearbox W5M33-2-UPGE I could use without any further modifications? And the UPWE with a mod because of the Front LSD.
An Evo box should be less hard to get over here.

But If anyone has a HSGR box lying around and is willing to sell please let me know.

 

[EVO-00X]

[SIZE=8pt]GEARBOX CODES EVO III[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]UPGE-GSR no LSD[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]UPWE-GSR with viscous front LSD[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]UPYE-RS no LSD[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]UPFE-RS with viscous front LSD[/SIZE]

But as mentioned previously you need to know what you currently have to be certain - don't base all your assumptions on the gearbox code if your gearbox has been rebuilt before.
FYI, the EVO III came with a 63 tooth front diff crownwheel, 15 tooth output pinion, used a 1.074 transfer case ratio and 3.909 rear diff ratio.

 

[4piknup]

Jackstransmissions has videos of how to confirm transfer and diff ratios on removed boxes.
Id check your rear diff as well. Count the turns...

 

[Super Top]

My rear diff has a original sticker on it with 3.909 on it. Standard HSGR rear diff.
ASA says the transferbox is identical to Evo2/3 GSR. Same partnumber.

 

[EVO-00X]

ASA would bring up two year model ranges under the CE9A chassis number.
Evo 2 uses 1.09 transfer
Evo 3 uses 1.074 transfer
But yeah, just stick with HSGR as being same as EVO III drivetrain.
Now you just need to find a complete EVO III gearbox.

 

[Super Top]

If I punch in my RVR chassis number. And go to transfer-assy. I get MD748832. In the part name column stands W5M33-2-UPGE,UPWE which is an Evo3 box.

 

[Super Top]

We've found a company in England that has a Evo3 LSD and non-LSD box for sale that are fine. The LSD box is only a bit more expensive than the non-LSD box.
If they also have the CV cups that go with the LSD box I'm going for the LSD one.

I'm thinking of swapping out the 5th gear from the RVR box into the EVO box.
Can anyone confirm that the 5th gear of the RVR box is longer or has the EVO box longer gears? Meaning lower revs at 120 km/h and higher top speed.
It's been a long time since I have calculated out gearbox ratio's.