Hydraulic Clutch Master Cylinder - Bleeding

[EVO-00X]

Hi guys

1. We all know how easy it is to bleed the factory gravity fed clutch master cylinder when doing our clutches... pump, hold and squirt - easy. Its the part number MB555413 with the 2 x clamps on it as pictured below. They have always bled 100% perfect everytime, quick and easy

These are still my preferred choice out of the lot.

2. Then you have the revised Delphi models part number LM60250. I've had one of these before and although it too is gravity fed, I had issues that when you depress it, the nylon/plastic inside the end housing part that bolts onto your clutch pedal deforms sideways and makes the rod push in on an angle

This would definitely kill the rubber seals inside the MC quicker and IMO is not as good as the OEM unit above.

3. Then thirdly, I've had some truly crap experiences trying to bleed the completely different units as found in CE Lancers etc. These ones dont have the clamps on them and dont work like gravity fed items. Sometimes it absolutely stumps myself and friends how these frikken things can work sometimes and then at other times dont bleed at all.

NOW, Can somebody please explain how they bleed the 3rd type of clutch master cylinder first time every time because Im sure we're not the only ones left scratching our heads why they work then they dont sometimes?

 

[BMGTZ]

have you tried the old motor bike bleed trick? It "might" work.....take large syringe the bigger the better...usually 3 bucks at a chemist.


get a short piece of hose and shove it over the bleed nipple on the slave cylinder so it is nice and tight. Now fill the syringe with the brake fluid and squirt that sucker into the bleed nipple after you have cracked it open. keep refilling the syringe and repeating the process till the fluid is visible in the cup on the master cylinder.

then bleed back the other way.......It doesn't work on every car but has on most I have tried

 

[PROGSR]

Another good method is to bench bleed the new clutch master cylinder before fitting it to your car.... basically priming it up with b/fluid ... first you clamp it in the vice ... block the port hole with a finger and partifully fill the reservoir ...next step pump it a couple of times from the rod to build up the pressure and then remove it to release the fliud.. repeat this a couple of times... make sure you have something to catch the fluid... this has always worked for me ...never had any issues.. I did have a drama one time that gravity bleeding didnt work due to a pin hole in the lines flexible hose only to create air in the system.

For the replacement part , you can also purchase a PBR one for around $90 to suit GSR's... part no: JB6030

 

[SIVART]

Ive just got a new OEM one to fit to my evo , and find bleeding it with this easy to get all the air out, http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Air-Brake-Bleeding-Tool-Kit-Fluid-Extractor-Bleeder-/400207895522?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d2e3fdbe2#ht_1095wt_905 , and then finishing off with the pedal pump and lock up like doing brakes is best

I have noticed that the factory line also can flex quite abit , so Ive fitted a Goodrige braided line + and OEM rebuild slave kit aswell , I cant wait to get a new clutch in there

 

[Gianni]

Good question. Just looked under my hood and have option 3 I've tried my best to bleed it. But the best I can do is get it to a point where when I clutch in it takes 2 steps. Step one push in untill clutch feels like it's down. Then push extra hard till the pedal drops down more. Then it goes in gear properly. If I don't do step 2 it sometimes can crunch when going into reverse.
Does this sound like a bleed issue. If so ci want a genuin I think

 

[EVO-00X]

Rob & Brian, Ive tried reverse and bench bleeding those #3's and there's no rhyme to them :lol: Just the other weekend a mate of mine who is a mechanic for Mitsubishi came over and we tried bleeding the aftermarket unit that came with his evo. Between the two of us we tried so many different types of methods (even reverse method, even using some pressure with a pump) that after some time I said fuk it, pulled out a spare OEM unit, bolted it in and bled it in under a minute. Those #3's push then pull the fluid back again which is soooo frustrating. Its not the first time myself and other mates have experienced it with them. I can recall 5 guys who have gone through it with me with all the same CMC's as #3's and in the end we ditched them. There's gotta be a specific way that those have to bled I reckon and that's what I'ld like to find out.

I have one on my car and it doesnt have full pressure when you first drive the car after a while after it sits there. After a few pumps it starts working well. no matter how many times I tried to bleed it, I cant get it any better :lol: Im not losing any fluid either so there's no leak. I also have one in the Evo III I recently purchased that sometimes the pedal will go down and not come back up again all the way. Ihavent had a chance to look at it yet but its got a #3 as well. I think the best thing to do is to stay the hell away from those #3's :lol:

Im with Trav, the OEM unit is the way to go if you can get one, but what's people's experiences with the PBR 6030's? Any pics of what they look like?

 

[PROGSR]

Rob I havent used the # 2 and #3 types, but never had any issues with the ones I've used... I bought a OEM one for my GSR back in 2001... at that time mitsi told me the MB555413 part had superceeded to MR297525 there was major price difference between the two the replacement one cost alot less... it looks a little different to all of the ones you have shown... but from memory the PBR JB6030 looks like it actually... I will try and get some pics up of both the MR297525 and JB6030.

 

[khubner1]

the second type is also prone to leaking back towards the firewall. i've had 2 of these fail on me and have had to use a rattle can to recote the firewall in this area.

 

[Paul]

Ah yes.

The joys of #3. I too have tried many ways to bleed it without success. Perhaps maybe a vacuum system is required to pull the fluid through.

In the end it beat me so i modified the pedal box and fitted a wilwood master cylinder. Clutch feel never felt better.

 

[EVO-00X]

the second type is also prone to leaking back towards the firewall. i've had 2 of these fail on me and have had to use a rattle can to recote the firewall in this area.

I think thats because of the nylon/plastic end issue. It's not reallt held in there solid and allows the rod go on all sorts of silly angles that kills the seals inside the MC.

 

[khubner1]

yeah i think so too prob is i've got type 1 here aswell but not the right screw to conect it to the line

 

[EVO-00X]

You might be able to take the rod out of #1 and put it into your #2 if you're lucky. Check the shape of the plastic and position of the rubber seals inside to make sure.

 

[Seano_boi]

sorry for the revive . also sorry if its a HiJack :mellow:

i have the stock GSR setup , same as in the top picture , today I was driving along happy and fine then my clutch stuck to the floor and never came up . just like that with no indication :wacko: .

i drove home doing key starts ( only 2 times thankfully cos i hate it ) and just took the way i didnt have to stop and i drove clutch-less shifts ( lucky i can change gears without a clutch , blame the truck for that one , :lol: ) . i went through all the checks once home . no leakage either inside or outside on the MC , the flexible line attached to the clutch has no leaks . i found a little bit of leakage at the slave , tightened the hard line fitting at the slave and all seemed good . bleed it up fine and drove it and it was sweet , a nice pedal .

I figured it was right after a drive so I stopped , gave myself a wash up , cooked and ate dinner , then a shower ready to go out . probs took maybe 2 hours all said and done from when i stopped to when i went to use the car to go out .

i hopped it the car to drive away and i got no further than 2 streets from my house and then the pedal went to the floor then stayed there again ! . . .

i have visually checked / inspected the MC , Soft line between the MC and the steel line , the hard line slave fitting and also the slave its self and they all seem to check out and the whole system bleeds up and get pedal just fine . . . only cant hold it .

Thinkin Hat well and truely on ! . . .

im thinking an air leak into the system but there is no obvious place to start . has anyone else experienced this and if so what was the problem and your soloution . . . before i wind up replacing things and still have the problem ? . I would like to be able to use my car ! . :fuuuuu:

 

[Gianni]

I've had it happen where the bolt pin between pedal and pushrod poped out. Obviously not ur problem.

Only thing I can think of out of the ordinary is the spring to push the pedal back up has something wrong with it.
Ur pedal... Does it have a spring around where it pivots or does it have a spring running down the length of the pedal with a rod through it. If option two, if u push pedal down to far, the rod in the middle will separate and can get stuck
which also means it's a pain in the but to pull back up

 

[Seano_boi]

if you give it a bit of a flick with the big toe the pedal springs straight back up . its the clutch not disengaging to allow starting and stopping that is the problem . and not matter how well you bleed its still a problem .

do you guys do the bleed trick where you bleed it as normal , once your done you get the pedal held down , crack the bleeder , and push the rod back in and squeeze the rest of the fluid out the bleeder that way ? . . .if you know what i mean ? . . . i had to do this on my mates Toyota but have not had to with the Mitsu . . . should i try this ? .

 

[Gianni]

Clutch not disengaging properly. Wouldn't that mean something is holding the thrust bearing against pressure plate. That couldn't be good. Otherwise I don't really understand what u meant.

Probs check if the fork moves freely to check

 

[Seano_boi]

Otherwise I don't really understand what u meant.

i was in a bit of a frustrated and p!ssed off fluster before , and i think i used the wrong words . basically what its doin is that you can do what ever you want to the pedal after about 2 hours from bleeding ect and the pedal makes no difference to anything . car acts as if you have not pressed the clutch at all , no gears just grinds , lol ! .

I have just done a bit or an order from Meek cos they had all the sh!7 on the shelf ready to go . i just got these parts and bron is sending them up , ill get them soon i hope it fixes it , what do you guys reckon about these bits ? .

Revised Pedal Box
Master Cylinder
Braided Line
Slave Cylinder

so then this thread about actually bleeding the different types will come in handy and i can hand the tread back after my desperate hijacking , lol . . . Cheers for understanding about that too :thumbsup:

 

[Gianni]

All good man. Sorry I can't help further.

 

[downunder]

Hi i have the no1 master and i just replaced the clutchline but i dont no how to bleed the clutch , could someone explain the steps. i tried to understand but cant.

lancer cc gsr 1992 vr4 2l

 

[Gianni]

Top master cyl with brake fluid.
Step in clutch pedal till its all the way down. I general jam a pry bar between the pedal and seat to hold it down
Undo the 10mm bleeder on slave cyl. Brake fluid should drain out. Or splatter at first where there is air.
Tighten bleeder once pressure is released.
Pump up pedal and top up fluid.
Repeat whole process untill the bleeder no longer splutters and is a steady stream plus a few extra times to make sure)