Looking at buying an RVR again

[CPDST]

Hi There!

For a while now I've been looking to get back into RVR ownership as I really enjoyed having one when I did, as my first car. Unfortunately I had to sell it and buy something smaller, more fuel efficient and functional, as there some major issues with the engine, halfshafts, and that awful RVR roof rust issue.

Where I live the supply of RVR's isn't exactly the greatest, and so this limits me quite a bit.. Over the next couple of weeks I've arranged to have a look at few varying types of RVR at varying prices, I'm just wondering what people think of the various N/A RVR's.

My first option is a 1992 RVR Z with a 4G93 motor, 2WD, 5-Speed, 196,000 KM's. Cambelt, head gasket and water pump done 30,000kms ago. Very little roof rust. It wouldn't be fast, certainly not like my old SG (4G63 N/A) but it would be something. Though it's a fairly basic car with no climate control, none of the nice things that the SG's have. Shiny towball so thinking it hasn't actually been used to tow much. How reliable are the 4G93's? $2000 (Negotiable)

Second option is a 1994 RVR Sports Gear, 4WD with 4G63 N/A, 5-Speed, with 206,000km's. Paint work is faded (From photo's I can see) but apparently there is no roof rust (But I haven't had the opportunity to take a look!). No word on cambelt or water pump, I'll have to check the engine bay when I take a look. Does have a towball, can't tell from photo's what it is like. $2000 (Negotiable)

Third option is a 1997 RVR Sports Gear, 4WD 4G63 N/A, 4-Speed Auto, 153,000KM's, airbag, new style climate control and indicator/wiper stalks. Pretty nice interior, only thing very odd is that all the grey on the steering wheel is completely worn off - I mean gone. The rim of the wheel has the colour of the rubber/plastic compound - leading me to think someone has wound the clock back?? Both the other RVR's and my old RVR had more KM's and yet the steering wheels were substantially grey ike the rest of the interior. Otherwise interior is good. Paintwork on the outside is brilliant actually, I feel sorry for the groomer at the dealer who had to make it shine so nicely. The only roof rust I can see are two "Sunroof seeds" at the front of where a sunroof would be, one about 1CM circlular, the other about 0.5cm circular, both bubles have completely broken through the paint and have exposed rusted metal. That's the only roof rust I can see. $3500 (From a dealer, so maybe if I tried really hard, he might reduce the price by, like, $1.00)

I'm looking for the RVR not to use as a day to day car, but more as a project/summer car that I would only keep registered during the good driving months, for the rest of the year I have an EP91 Starlet to get me from A -> B.

Mainly with these I'm concerned about the high KM's on the first 2, as to how long the engines would last, on the 3rd one, the main concern is the auto and the roof rust.

Thoughts/discussion appreciated. If it would help, and someone can direct me how to, I can upload photos of all three RVR's.

Regards,
Craig.

 

[mathew_colville]

Hey Craig

What is your plan for the car? what do you want to get out of it? do you want to make it fast? a showcar? off road car? Do you just want to learn how to work on a car?

If its only going to be used as a "weekend car" i would go an awd turbo one as petrol consumption wont be a huge issue, and then you would have something to look forward to when you drove it. The others you are looking at would be quiet ordinary to drive im guessing?


To upload photos you need photobucket or similar, in photobucket you upload the picture to there and then on the right it says share links, click on the one that says IMG and paste the link on your post

 

[CPDST]

Hey Mat,

My plan for the car is to make it as stock as possible (Within reason) - this is boring, I know, but it's what I enjoy. I'd like the vehicle to be running at the moment, and able to pass a Warrant of Fitness inspection, at least at the moment - if there's anything anything brewing I suppose I'll have the better part of a year to fix it before the next summer.

I don't know how able I'd be to fix things my self, apart from interior detailing, cleaning. The most mechanically demanding thing I've ever done on a car is to change the spark plugs. The main thing is, if I can get away with not sending the engine to the reconditioners for at least a year that would be nice.

On the turbo AWD thing - I'd completely agree with you there - though my N/A Sports Gear was a great deal of fun to drive already, more power wouldn't go amiss. :thumbsup: However, I've only ever seen 2 Turbo RVR's (One was an SSG and one was an HSG.) in Dunedin, neither of them for sale. Also, being a university town there's always the risk that a turbo car was owned by some hoon student who would spend tons of cash making it go faster, putting lights on it, lowering it etc - but not a lot on maintenance.

It is a pity though, from reading around here the Turbo AWD auto gearboxes are stronger than the N/A ones?

On consideration, mainly for the fun to drive aspect, I've sort of dropped the 4G93 RVR from consideration. How many KM's can a well treated N/A 4G63 run before needing a reconditioning? My Sports Gear's engine was stuffed, and it only had 175,000KMs which is what worries me. As a comparison, my EP91 Starlet is a 1996 car, 235,000KM's, still drives very nicely, doesn't smoke or use water, but it does burn a little oil. But the engine is nowhere near being stuffed.

Thanks for the advice about how to upload pictures.

Regards,
Craig.

 

[unhuman]

How many KM's can a well treated N/A 4G63 run before needing a reconditioning? My Sports Gear's engine was stuffed, and it only had 175,000KMs which is what worries me. As a comparison, my EP91 Starlet is a 1996 car, 235,000KM's, still drives very nicely, doesn't smoke or use water, but it does burn a little oil. But the engine is nowhere near being stuffed.

High Craig.

Like all cars it depends on how it has been treated and how regularly it has been maintained during its lifetime. My 4G93T has 180+K on it but has been well looked after in my 10 years of ownership, thus has 170psi compression on all cylinders / doesn't smoke or use oil etc. 4G63's are not inherently unreliable, on the contrary that is in part why they have been so popular.

Without really knowing the condition we can't give a strong opinion on which one is best for you over the internet. If you're wary of things breaking that you can't fix I would recommend you take a friend with you who knows cars and can look at them with a knowledgeable eye. Make a checklist beforehand of things to inspect as its easy to overlook simple things in the heat of the moment.

Are any of these on TradeMe? If so post some links and we might be able to help more.

You are right to be concerned about the worn steering wheel. Best thing to do if you know the rego or vin is buy a www.carjam.co.nz report as it plots the mileage entered at every WOF on a line graph, thus it's easy to see if it goes down at any stage. Also details any police or finance interest so is a must for any car you are serious about. Other real world things to check is too open the drivers door and see if there is any up and down play. Also check for how worn the pedal rubbers and carpet in the drivers footwell is.

There seems to be a lot of RVR owners on here with autos so I can't speak for them, but in my experience auto gearboxes are right up there with roof rust as the biggest problems with these generation Mitsi's. I have had terrible problems both in my NA 4G92 Mirage and 4G93T Libero. Personally I will never own an auto Mitsubishi again.

Best of luck.

 

[CPDST]

Yeah, I guessed as much.

I'll be taking any car I decide to commit to purchasing for a mechanical inspection with my (very harsh) mechanic, who's first words i know will be something along the lines of, "Don't buy it, it's a Mitsubishi". So I think he'll find every reason to tell me why not to go for one.

One the two I'm now looking at is this one: http://www.autotrader.co.nz/used-cars-for-sale/mitsubishi-rvr/1288318, I know the photos are awful, I'm viewing it tomorrow.

The other one (1997 Auto Sports Gear from dealer) has no web presence I can find, but here are the pics: You'll be able to see the really worn teering wheel. Funny though, the floormats are OEM but are in really good nick. Didn't check for door play, I'll do that when I take it for a spin. It has 153,000KM's, which is the lowest I've seen around here for a while. The photo of the roof rust is the only roof rust that I can see, it also isn't bubbling anywhere else. I did do a Carjam check and the KM's are consistent right through - it was imported in 2005 with roughly 76,000KM's. That still doesn't explain the steering wheel though.









It's also had the cambelt done 4000km's ago apparently.

Thanks,
Craig

 

[Dave_GSR1.8]

My 2c worth is be very wary of rust, mechanical stuff can (usually) be fixed once for a (usually) predictable price, and its done, with rust you chase your tail, you never stop fixing it and it can get expensive. Its a shame that the one in your photos has the rust in the roof because the rest of it looks nice and clean.

 

[unhuman]

Sounds like you're covering off the risk well Craig.

I would use the roof rust as a bargining chip to haggle the price down a little. Make sure the dealer knows that you know roof rust is an issue in these cars, what causes it etc. Also make sure you pull up the drivers floor mat to check for wear just under the foot rest.

The mileage history looks linear which is good. The carjam reports gives you the ownership history, if its been with the last owner for some time then that could put your mileage fears to rest.

It has needed a recheck on almost every WOF in the last couple of years which is a worry, would be interesting to know what on exactly. Could be simple things but thats the risk with buying an older car.

If your mechanic doesn't come back with anything too major then that one could be an option. Worse case 3.5K on a car brought from a dealer thus has some warrenty conditions is not too great of a gamble.

 

[CPDST]

My 2c worth is be very wary of rust, mechanical stuff can (usually) be fixed once for a (usually) predictable price, and its done, with rust you chase your tail, you never stop fixing it and it can get expensive. Its a shame that the one in your photos has the rust in the roof because the rest of it looks nice and clean.

Sounds like you're covering off the risk well Craig.

I would use the roof rust as a bargining chip to haggle the price down a little. Make sure the dealer knows that you know roof rust is an issue in these cars, what causes it etc. Also make sure you pull up the drivers floor mat to check for wear just under the foot rest.

The mileage history looks linear which is good. The carjam reports gives you the ownership history, if its been with the last owner for some time then that could put your mileage fears to rest.

It has needed a recheck on almost every WOF in the last couple of years which is a worry, would be interesting to know what on exactly. Could be simple things but thats the risk with buying an older car.

If your mechanic doesn't come back with anything too major then that one could be an option. Worse case 3.5K on a car brought from a dealer thus has some warrenty conditions is not too great of a gamble.

With roof rust, has anyone on this forum ever cut out the entire roof panel and put in a new sheet in? This would be expensive (If it were possible even), but I'm sure this solution would completely remove the rust issue. I told the dealer straight out I knew it was an issue, and though all RVR's get it, it's not something I'd like the car to have - implying that it reduces the car's value in my eyes. Though I haven't talked price yet as I want to assess other options around town.

Thanks for the tips! Are there any other trouble spots on the RVR that I should be aware of? The main ones that I've covered here have been the roof rust, piston rings (Blue smoke, my old RVR would spit out roiling clouds of it each time I pulled away from the lights), and valve stem seals, which I think is white smoke that still occurs once the engine is warmed through? The green RVR makes no ticking/clacking noises at idle either, so I'm going to assume that the lifters/tappets are fine, I suppose after a drive all will become clear.

Hmm about the WOF recheck thing - and the trouble with it being a dealer is of course that the history isn't known - if it were private I'd ask the owner - and the owners folio isn't with the car, so the only "service history" I've got are the stickers in the engine bay and on the windscreen.

Thanks for all the help! I'll drive the one on Auto Trader tomorrow, and I've arranged to drive the Green one once most of my Uni exams have passed - if it's still on the lot, which I think will be likely, its been there for the past 3 months.

Regards,
Craig.

 

[CPDST]

Here's the photobucket album of all the pictures I took yesterday:

http://s1331.photobucket.com/user/CPDST/library/1997%20RVR

 

[mathew_colville]

I know with the gsr's here in australia many people have replaced the whole roof skin, i dont know how easy getting a roof skin for an rvr is though?

 

[CPDST]

So It wouldn't just be a matter of cutting a piece of sheet metal to fit to re-skin the roof, it would have to be an OEM (Or OEM equivalent) part?

That would be difficult to find, considering RVR's aren't exactly common. At leats with a GSR the body is substaintially a Lancer, and they're fairly common - enough that you could maybe cut a good roof out of one and put it into a GSR? Not so with RVR's I think.

Craig.

 

[mathew_colville]

yeah im not an expert on this but im guessing that to get the right curves on a piece of metal would be quiet difficult? unless there is only a small amount you might be able to just replace small sections with new metal unless it warps, but if its rusting through the roof already then its probably a lot worse under the roof lining than what you can see

yeah with our gsr, you more than likely have to buy a new roof skin as nearly all of the lancers have roof rust. we can get a new roof skin off a proton wira or persona which saves us thousands of dollars instead of buying genuine mitsubishi. In saying that i read (a long time a go, so dont quote me on it) that it still costs over $2000 to get it done by a panelbeater, so id hate to see the price of getting it done on an rvr :wacko:

 

[CPDST]

yeah im not an expert on this but im guessing that to get the right curves on a piece of metal would be quiet difficult? unless there is only a small amount you might be able to just replace small sections with new metal unless it warps, but if its rusting through the roof already then its probably a lot worse under the roof lining than what you can see

yeah with our gsr, you more than likely have to buy a new roof skin as nearly all of the lancers have roof rust. we can get a new roof skin off a proton wira or persona which saves us thousands of dollars instead of buying genuine mitsubishi. In saying that i read (a long time a go, so dont quote me on it) that it still costs over $2000 to get it done by a panelbeater, so id hate to see the price of getting it done on an rvr :wacko:

Ohh yikes! $2000! Wow, I didn't realize it could be that much. :wacko: Then with that in mind if I do go for the dealer one, or any other RVR with a hint of roof rust, I'll definitely bear that in mind when negotiating. I'll post up my experience with the Navy-Blue RVR tomorrow, when that happens. I'm hopeful then, as the owner claims there is no rust on the roof skin.

Craig

 

[mathew_colville]

good luck :thumbsup: if you can (if there is one) remove the interior roof light and shine a light up there, obviously it would be better if you could take out the roof lining but the owner might not be impressed lol

 

[evo-gsr]

There is no point cutting sections of it out. To fix the problem once and for all you need to remove the old roof skin and clean off all the old glue from the rails and replace the skin. If the rails/ribs are rusted they need to be replaced too... The glue they used is what causes the problem, it attracts moisture. It was actually a factory recall for GSRs quite a few years back, from memory.
speaking from experience here not what I have read.

 

[CPDST]

Well with the Navy-Blue RVR (The one on Autotrader), I didn't even get as far as checking inside the interior lights. It had been used and abused - interior was awful, and whilst that can be fixed with a little elbow grease, it was indicatve of a lack of maintenance - oil covering the entire engine bay, the heat shield missing from the exhaust manifold (?) - the shield that should normally be sitting above a twirl of four pipes? I apologize for my poor description. No cambelt ever replaced to the knowledge of the owners, certainly no stickers in the engine bay in all the usual places, and tappets made the ticky noise. Though no lifter noise. The engine really lacked power - even compared to my previous RVR - which wasn't in great condition - it felt gutless. Hills which in the previous RVR could be done in 3rd gear needed 2nd, and generally it was less peppy. And I don't think it was the clutch causing that, as the clutch bit down low. The gear selector felt very dodgy indeed, tons of slop, I never felt confident about selecting a gear, whilst my previous RVR gear selection was notchy, but quite crisp. The steering felt really sloppy, but only at the centre - and I remember specifically my previous RVR having the most direct steering of any car I drove up until that point, or have since. But anyway, you could turn the wheel a good 1/4 turn from top dead center (an 1/8th either side) with no effect whatsoever, even at speeds of 80KMH. This was out of touch with what I remember. The exterior easn't great either - no roof rust, but the roof had been resprayed at home with a can of spray paint by the looks of things, there were major dents on the silver (lower) part of the body, and there was moss (!!) growing on seals for the windows etc.

Sorry, rant over. Cross that one off the list.

Craig.

 

[mathew_colville]

lol, at least you didnt buy it and then notice all those problems

 

[xjokux]

I'll be selling my 1995 rvr manual. Located in brisbane. Pm if your interested

 

[unhuman]

He's in NZ, so probably not.

 

[xjokux]

My bad, im on my phone