Mineral vs synthetic oil for running in motor
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3zercrowd
Donating Member
cheeks said:
Mineral oil run in 100-200kms @ Varying speeds and loads around town prob not past 5000RPM
Semi synthetic 500kms
Full synthetic for the rest.
Filter change after everyone.....
Engine run-in costs a bit so be prepared to buy a couple of new oil filters and 10 litres of 30 grade mineral oil the first day you start the engine up.
I usually use Valvolene Premium mono 30 (it used to be called 'running in oil') for engine run ins and its available at any good parts store for about $30 for 5 litres. I also use magnets from old computer hard drives stuck onto the outside of the oil filter. These little suckers are damn strong, unlike any other magnet I have come across for such a small size and they'll catch all the fine bits of metal scraped from your bores or left inside your block from cleaning etc whilst running in your newly built engine. Those of you who have stuck 2 of these magnets together know how hard they are to pull apart!! lol
When I first start new engines up I keep the revs up around 2500-3000rpm and do a quick check for oil, fuel or water leaks (safety comes first!!!). As the engine heats up and burns off all the excessive oil etc left on the motor after the build (you'll get a fair bit of smoke coming from your new engine as it heats up so dont worry as its just burning off crap on the outside of the engine), just make sure the thermo fans cut in when the temp rises. Once its all given a clean bill of health with no leaks I drive the car immediately as its important not to get up the new motor unless its at normal operating temperature.
I'm lucky I live near an open highway and I do a range of 3rd and 4th gear pulls to 2/3rds redline and decellerate the engine slowly (without using brakes), then accelerate again to about 2/3rds the redline several times whilst keeping a close eye on engine temperatures. If you live in the city try to get to a high speed road ASAP as you wont get as good a result if you drive only up to 60kmh. Dont ever baby he first 100kms of engine driving and dont ever let it sit there in a garage idling or you wont be putting any load on the engine and wont bed the rings in properly ending up with blowby forever until your next engine build.
I'm not saying drive it hard, well I kind of am but only to 2/3rds redline. What you dont want to do is baby it around and let it idle too much within the first 100km (or hour of operation).
After your run come home and let it cool down before dropping the oil and changing the filter. Continue to use run-in oil and a new oil filter with the magnets on the outside for about 500km-1000km. It also gives you time to save up for the next oil change lol...
You can either go the semi synthetic route for a bit or straight to a full synthetic of your choice. I am mostly concerned that the engine is given a good chance of wearing in properly first as the number 1 priority.
I usually use Valvolene Premium mono 30 (it used to be called 'running in oil') for engine run ins and its available at any good parts store for about $30 for 5 litres. I also use magnets from old computer hard drives stuck onto the outside of the oil filter. These little suckers are damn strong, unlike any other magnet I have come across for such a small size and they'll catch all the fine bits of metal scraped from your bores or left inside your block from cleaning etc whilst running in your newly built engine. Those of you who have stuck 2 of these magnets together know how hard they are to pull apart!! lol
When I first start new engines up I keep the revs up around 2500-3000rpm and do a quick check for oil, fuel or water leaks (safety comes first!!!). As the engine heats up and burns off all the excessive oil etc left on the motor after the build (you'll get a fair bit of smoke coming from your new engine as it heats up so dont worry as its just burning off crap on the outside of the engine), just make sure the thermo fans cut in when the temp rises. Once its all given a clean bill of health with no leaks I drive the car immediately as its important not to get up the new motor unless its at normal operating temperature.
I'm lucky I live near an open highway and I do a range of 3rd and 4th gear pulls to 2/3rds redline and decellerate the engine slowly (without using brakes), then accelerate again to about 2/3rds the redline several times whilst keeping a close eye on engine temperatures. If you live in the city try to get to a high speed road ASAP as you wont get as good a result if you drive only up to 60kmh. Dont ever baby he first 100kms of engine driving and dont ever let it sit there in a garage idling or you wont be putting any load on the engine and wont bed the rings in properly ending up with blowby forever until your next engine build.
I'm not saying drive it hard, well I kind of am but only to 2/3rds redline. What you dont want to do is baby it around and let it idle too much within the first 100km (or hour of operation).
After your run come home and let it cool down before dropping the oil and changing the filter. Continue to use run-in oil and a new oil filter with the magnets on the outside for about 500km-1000km. It also gives you time to save up for the next oil change lol...
You can either go the semi synthetic route for a bit or straight to a full synthetic of your choice. I am mostly concerned that the engine is given a good chance of wearing in properly first as the number 1 priority.
Good write up Rob,
That is exactly how I do mine.
Straight 30 run in oil for about 1200km's for me with regular changes.
I do one after the first start, then after the dyno tune (if tuning), if not, do it after a few heavy loads.
Although I do take mine up to 7000rpm.
These days it is more about the rings as bearing tolerances are much more accurate now.
The last thing you want to do is glaze your bores and not have the rings bed in correctly.
That is exactly how I do mine.
Straight 30 run in oil for about 1200km's for me with regular changes.
I do one after the first start, then after the dyno tune (if tuning), if not, do it after a few heavy loads.
Although I do take mine up to 7000rpm.
These days it is more about the rings as bearing tolerances are much more accurate now.
The last thing you want to do is glaze your bores and not have the rings bed in correctly.
Thats the biggest mistake people make on new motors. There's still a misconception out there that you should baby a new engine around but this is not entirely true (some manufacturers already wear in motors before you get the car). Motorbikes are the same. Have you ever seen a brand new motorbike on the highway speeding up and slowing down, speeding up and slowing down and wondered WTF is he doing lol??? ... thats because the dude just bought the thing and is taking it out for its first run. I see it pretty often out my waybazeng said:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm..
I dont agree with everything, but its a good read.
I dont agree with everything, but its a good read.
cblancergsr
Well-Known Member
even use the magnets out of autotransmission they are really strong.
for bedding in your supposed too baby it for so many kms and then flog it and then baby it thats what my old boss tought me when he built a ej20 out of a mates subie and thats was over a year ago and that engines still running extremely stong.
as for running in oil id definetly agree with mineral first and working your way up too full synthetic ive seen a 4g63 have glazed bored in the first 500ks cos he used semi synthetic oil as a start
for bedding in your supposed too baby it for so many kms and then flog it and then baby it thats what my old boss tought me when he built a ej20 out of a mates subie and thats was over a year ago and that engines still running extremely stong.
as for running in oil id definetly agree with mineral first and working your way up too full synthetic ive seen a 4g63 have glazed bored in the first 500ks cos he used semi synthetic oil as a start
runuts
Well-Known Member
Synthetic vs mineral for running in, is the biggest crock of shit myth that has been around as long as I can remember.
I have run-in that many engines on straight synthetic, that I cant recall. Not once have I ever had an issue.
One thing you should be aware of though.
Its friction modifiers that cause the issues.
A high quality synthetic of JASO-MA(preferrably MA2) is what I recommend.
The only real differences between mineral and synthetic, are how quickly they break down and lose their properties.
Synthetic will sustain its weight for longer than minerals, and also has far superior film strength. Two key components required during a critical time such as run in. Especially if you are doing a tune aswell, as during tuning, the only way to get the ideal ignition timing is to actually make the engine detonate to begin with.
I have run-in that many engines on straight synthetic, that I cant recall. Not once have I ever had an issue.
One thing you should be aware of though.
Its friction modifiers that cause the issues.
A high quality synthetic of JASO-MA(preferrably MA2) is what I recommend.
The only real differences between mineral and synthetic, are how quickly they break down and lose their properties.
Synthetic will sustain its weight for longer than minerals, and also has far superior film strength. Two key components required during a critical time such as run in. Especially if you are doing a tune aswell, as during tuning, the only way to get the ideal ignition timing is to actually make the engine detonate to begin with.
Everyone has heir own method, some say thrash it, some say baby it, do whatever the fuck you want ey lol..
as rob said its all about bedding the rings, wat you want to do is the loads then let it decel to get the vacuum in the cylinders pulling the rings out and bedding in, ive been told to do this 6 or so times and after that flog it. The person who told me this has done this to all the engines he has built, he has built more v8's than he can remember.
saying this, its just another opinion, no one is correct and no one is wrong.
as rob said its all about bedding the rings, wat you want to do is the loads then let it decel to get the vacuum in the cylinders pulling the rings out and bedding in, ive been told to do this 6 or so times and after that flog it. The person who told me this has done this to all the engines he has built, he has built more v8's than he can remember.
saying this, its just another opinion, no one is correct and no one is wrong.
runuts
Well-Known Member
Best way to run it in, give it a good hammering on the dyno. You can literally see when the rings bed by the change in a/f ratios.
runuts said:
Its been a debated topic since the day synthetic oil was first used in the internal combustion engine. What is true is that synthetic oil is far more superior than mineral oil for engines in every respect, bar the much debated wear in of the rings after an engine rebuild.
The very nature of synthetic engine oil is to reduce friction, improve cooling, improve cleaning (degrease) and improve the longevity of oil in the engine and you do want that dont get me wrong, but in my opinion not where the rings contact the bores during the start up process. Mineral oil will burn away from the walls without leaving any friction inhibiting residue where synthetic oils will. Hell, theres a good reason why a lot competition engine builders out there dont even coat the cylinder bore walls with oil at all during startup process just for the sheer fact that they want the rings to run dry for those few seconds while cranking before oil pressure builds up. Its not something that I'll do in fear of damaging the rings, but its not uncommon as people may think. I use 30 grade even during piston/ring installation and liberally apply it around the ridge of the bores and piston skirts before knocking the piston into the bores.
As lubricating the bearings and cams etc are concerned during the intial start up process they are still protected by the use of assembly lube as it stays on those components keeping them protected against corrosion and cranking over dry for a long time way after the engine has been reassembled - something mineral or synhetic oil wont do untill after you have built up oil pressure again.
This is why its been common practice for engine builders to use 30 grade mineral oil in a newly built engine. You run it through its paces and then dump the oil and filter out (to clean out all the crap including moly assembly lube etc that you used during the build up). Once the initial wear in is done then 100% no doubt about it, switch to the synthetic stuff for superior engine protection.
Every engine builder has their own preferred way to do stuff. Some say tomato, some say tomatoe
