No Reverse.

[Nicholas Grayer]

Hey all, New to 4gtuner and love the forum, just for good measure for 2016 I think I throw this to the crowd.

I have picked up a CC GSR (CD5a) no history on it, don't know what the previous owner was doing in regards to wiring and vac hoses, or maintenance, engine works well and drives forward fine 1st to 5th all good but no reverse.
Shifter has loads of play on the main shaft inside the car as the bush is gone ill get that replaced. the cables look new and have a little bit of play but nothing major.

I have trawled the forum and found some awesome posts about this stuff already but as always have slight differences.

I have tried moving gears with engine on and off, clutch appears fine with other 5 gears.

I have disconnected the cables from the gear box end and cannot move it into reverse by hand but can find all other gears. I have had a look at the bolts with the ball bearing in them and they all appear fine (fantastic post by Evo-00x), if they are loosened of removed reverse still wont engage.
I have checked the small plastic lock box in the gear box link fork thingy (technical term) appears to be ok and in place.

I haven't started opening anything at the moment as ill have to work off the ground, was just seeking some guidance into it all before I removed covers and started learning about gearboxes hahaha. rather not open anything if I have missed an external step to open up reverse.

sorry for the long post I'm dreaming of a easy fix but I think I have ruled out all of those so far

 

[ENGINR]

You should be able to select reverse at the gearbox, so if you can't it sounds like the issue is internal.

Only way to know for sure is pull the gearbox out and dis-assemble it. I can put you onto somebody in Central Victoria who would be able to take a look at it.

 

[Cranked]

U could pull the back cover off the box while in the car, that will allow access to reverse.

 

[White Knight]

Welcome to the forum bro!
Whilst I don't have a fix for you (well, no easy one at least), IG you ate unsure about gearboxes I would not hesitate in getting hooked up with "Engine" and get it sorted. I'm sure you got the GSR cheap and have allowed this. Gearboxes are a pain in the arse in my opinion, fixed by people who talk to themselves and watch star trek in their mother's basement.... Just kidding Aldo, you go alright.
If you can't select from the gearbox, Enginr is right, its internal and needs a trained/skilled hand.
I'm sure its a simple thing and I have had something similar which went away just from removing and reinstalling previous gearbox (it was a 1st gear thing) but I have no idea why that happened. Best of luck buddy.

 

[4piknup]

Back cover gives access to 5th. Reverse is all the way down the front.
I still reckon you could pull the cluster with gearbox fitted.

 

[Nicholas Grayer]

Thanks guys. Yh i cant select reverse at the box sadly its like its blocked. 1 to 5 go in sweet so its a shame. Would it be a syncro or the actual gearing. Or is there only one way to find this out haha.
Yh got it cheap so nothing is suprising on this project.
Im happy to get in and sort it. Just wanted to cover everything i can keeping the box in the car as i have to do it all from the floor. From the side covers etc im guessing you wont be able to remove much.

 

[evo-gsr]

No easy way with this one by the sounds of things.

 

[ENGINR]

You need to remember that these parts are getting on 20+ years old now, so things like gearboxes etc are going to start wearing out.

I honestly think your best bet is to remove the gearbox and have it looked at by somebody who knows these cars. Like I said in one of my earlier posts - I know somebody here in Vic who could do a re-fresh on your gearbox no problems, but you'd need to pull it out and send it to him.

Other option is to find another GSR gearbox and swap it in, if you're going to be removing the original gearbox to have it dis-assembled and repaired anyway, you will be getting under the car and your hands dirty regardless.

Would also be a good opportunity to take a look at the condition of your clutch and flywheel, replace the throwout bearing, clutch fork and pivot ball and just give everything a good going over.

 

[Nicholas Grayer]

Thanks for the help. Sounds like the next step. Sadly im in perth wa. So frieght for the gearbox would be a pretty penny. Thanks for the info enginr. Ill do some research on the forum for gearbox refurbishment. I got the car as a pet project so i will learn gearbox talk. I think like you said i might as well look to replace clutch and flywheel.
I think we forget that these little beauties are that old.

Can you drop the gearbox from the floor on axle stands or will i need car lift?

Thanks again. The info and you guys on here are priceless

 

[evo-gsr]

It can be dropped out while on jack stands..its a little more difficult but can be done.
A hoist makes every job easier...

 

[4piknup]

Bmgtz is resident parts dude this side.

I rebuilt my gearbox here in perth without problems but i only put in seals and the normally worn bearings.
Parts are pricey if you are in a rush. If you can inspect box and order bits from us and wait for them, its not too bad.

Problems start to come in when you start looking for worn parts.
You can do it on axle stands and a trolley jack. Gearbox is heavy and wobbly tho.

there is no synchro on reverse. Its a extra side gear that jams in on its selector.

Pull the box out and i can drop past and have a look at reverse and the rest of the synchroes.

it will more that likely need the seals and 6 big bearings. And thats like $400 alone in parts.

 

[ENGINR]

It can be done without a hoist, you will need to get the car as high off the ground as possible so you will have plenty of room to slide the gearbox out from underneath.

Key thing will be to get an engine brace which sits across the engine bay and supports the engine when the gearbox is removed, as one of the key mounts for the engine/gearbox is on the gearbox casing and the engine will only be supported by the passenger side mount when you remove the gearbox and north/south cross-member.

Before you get it off the ground be sure to unclip your gearbox cables, reverse switch, clutch line and anything else that might be connected to the gearbox. The last thing you need when you're under the car and trying to wiggle the gearbox out of position is to have something catch in the engine bay and you can't get to it to finish the job!

Get the wheels off, knock the control arms out of the knuckles and get the CV shafts out, you'll also need to unbolt the intermediate shaft on the passenger side from the block. Remove the tailshaft, exhaust and transfer case, north/south cross-member and then you should be right to start unbolting the gearbox from the block and start wiggling it off. Put a trolley jack under it to take the weight and if possible have a mate support it from above so it doesn't drop off the jack and onto your head!!

 

[ENGINR]

You'll need a 20, 21 or 22mm (or bigger!) socket (I can't remember which but it's a big socket!!) and rattle gun to get the big-ass nuts off the CV shafts so you can get them out of the hubs. You'll need to swing the hub out quite a way to get the CV out, so it might pay to look at where your brake lines are clipped in and make sure you're not over-stressing those when you're manipulating the setup to get the CV out.

 

[EVO-00X]

Do this first.
1. Put gear shifter in the car into neutral.
2. Remove the shifter cable linkages off the gearbox's gear selector arms from inside the engine bay.
3. Grab onto the gear selector arm of the gearbox. Now manually pull the arm as far as it will go outwards (towards front of the car) as possible. While holding it out, turn the selector fully left - it should clunk into gear, then let go. Left is Reverse. If it doesnt go in, then try pulling the lever outwards and all the way to the right. Right is 5th gear.
4. If you can confirm that it wont go into reverse, I suggest the next step would be to unscrew your reverse sensor switch from the top of your gearbox. It's the big switch with the wires and black plug going to it on top of your gearbox. Remove it fully and inspect the base of the switch. It should have a nice shiny silver ball bearing in it encapsulated all around by the sensor so it doesnt fall out. Press the ball bearing in and out with your finger. It should go in and out very easily as it is spring loaded. If the switch doesnt look damaged and the ball bearing is pressing in and out fine, then you know the switch isn't stopping the gears from selecting reverse. Now try step 3 again and see if it lets you get into Reverse now. If it still doesnt allow you to get into Reverse, then DO NOT screw the reverse sensor switch all the way back in. Simply just wind it back into the top of the gearbox a couple of turns but NEVER wind it in all the way down when the gearbox isn't actually in the REVERSE position as it will irreversibly damage the ball bearing tip permanently. Now go to Step 5.
4b. However, if your gear lever now does shift into Reverse gear with the switch removed, then you know the reverse sensor was wound in too far into the gearbox. Leave the gearbox in the REVERSE position and screw the switch back in gently hand tight. Then try moving in and out of reverse gear again. There is normally an alloy washer/spacer on the sensor that lets it sit about 1-2mm proud off the gearbox when it is fully screwed in. Make sure you have a washer in place, screw it in, now check that you can still select in and out of reverse. If you can, you're done. Put the shifter cable linkages back onto the gearbox, plug the reverse switch back in and its happy days - THE END.
5. Now that you know it still cant select Reverse gear with the reverse switch fully removed from the gearbox, there's something wrong internally. It's either going to be inside the rear end case of the gearbox (easy fix whilst gearbox can remain in the car), or the problem will be inside the bellhousing (PITA as you have to remove the gearbox to do the job).
6. Drop the oil out of the gearbox. Jack the front of the car up. Put stands under the chassis under the car (safety first). Remove driver's side front wheel for better view. Now remove all the bolts from the end case. BE CAREFUL. Next to the end case is a thin sandwich plate part of the gearbox casing that is now only held in position by sealant because you have just removed the bolts. DO NOT budge or break the seal between the sandwich plate and the rest of the gearbox. We only want to remove the end case/cap here in this step. Once you remove the bolts, pry off the end case/cap from the sandwich plate. Once you do a synchro ring will fall out. That is the reverse gear synchro. Yes, it loosely just sits in between the end case and the reverse hub. Get out from under the car and look inside the end case you just removed. There should be a metal circular ring on one side of the case, with a thin circular spring (called a 'wave spring') connected to it. This wave spring is what holds the reverse synchro up against the reverse selector hub when you put the gearbox back together. Check that the wave spring is not broken by gently pressing it in and out. If the wave spring falls out, it is easy to put back into the end case by aligning the 2 notches in the spring with the correct position in the end case. If the wave spring is broken or split (not a complete circle) then it needs to be replaced and could be the reason why you cant select reverse because it could have misaligned the reverse synchro to stop the hub from sliding onto the synchro. If the wave spring is intact, then check the condition of the reverse synchro. I don't need to explain how to do that, you can check that on the internet lol.... but if the shape of the teeth don't look like little houses from side on, then you need to replace it. A damaged synchro could be why you cant get into reverse gear too.
7. If both the reverse synchro and wave spring look good, then go back under the car and check that the synchro keys and spring (a big U-shaped arc that holds the keys in place) are sitting in the reverse hub properly. You could have a broken spring on Reverse. If you do, replace it. If not, and the keys are still in position and the spring is holding them in, get a mate (or yourself if you are capable), to now manually select between 5th and Reverse gear on the gearbox selector arms like we did in point 3 above.
8. As you are switching between 5th and reverse, watch how the shift rail and shifter fork moves in and out to select between both gears. If you find you can select reverse now with the end case off, then you know the problem is in the back end of the gearbox you are working in. If you still cannot select into reverse then the problem is internal. Most likely the little reverse idler arm with the shoe that drops down onto the input shaft that engages reverse, or the problem is a misalignment in the actual way the 5th/reverse shift fork end mates up to the reverse idler arm inside. Either way, if the problem is inside the gearbox has to come out and be pulled down to the bellhousing.

 

[4piknup]

Guru^

 

[evo-gsr]

Bmgtz is resident parts dude this side.
I rebuilt my gearbox here in perth without problems but i only put in seals and the normally worn bearings.
Parts are pricey if you are in a rush. If you can inspect box and order bits from us and wait for them, its not too bad.
Problems start to come in when you start looking for worn parts.
You can do it on axle stands and a trolley jack. Gearbox is heavy and wobbly tho.
there is no synchro on reverse. Its a extra side gear that jams in on its selector.
Pull the box out and i can drop past and have a look at reverse and the rest of the synchroes.
it will more that likely need the seals and 6 big bearings. And thats like $400 alone in parts.

No synchro on reverse hey?...hmmm

 

[Nicholas Grayer]

Wow......... thanks enginr and evo00x.... absolutely fantastic. I will have a look and see what we got. Thank you guys so much.

 

[4piknup]

Im looking at that straight cut gear in the 2nd/3rd last pics. I see a straight cut reverse gear with a selector arm on it. There is no synchro on it or the other straight gears it meshes with
If somehow the 5th slider assembly has the synchro for reverse in it then ok, that was beyond my understanding at the time i had one apart.

 

[4piknup]

Yea righto. Another beer your way...

 

[evo-gsr]

Jd only ^