Power Porting / Extrude Honing.. opinions? pics!

[bazeng]

hey guys

Just wanted to start a discussion about extrude honing / power porting

I've had my compressor cover power ported and it looks good!
i chose to get it done before i bolt the thing up, while its off the car..

-------------------------------------------------------------
Some data i've recieved from the guy who did it

- T3 turbo
before: 140 degree's celcius intake temp @ 15 psi boost
after: 100 degree's celcius intake temp @ 21 psi boost (unadjusted, boost incease automatically)

- To4e/66mm turbo
before: 500 WHP
after: 526 WHP with a 20degree celcius intake temp drop

-----------------------------------------------

What do you guys think?
bs or realistic?

I personally believe it, using my comp cover as evidence, the size of the outlet on the comp cover had about 2" of actual hole, from what was a 2 1/2" outer... it had about 7mm of meat around the hole... after the porting it only has about 3mm of meat!

Also the casting inside was very rough, lots of jagged bits everywhere!
its now completely smooth!..

----------------------------------------------

The process included
- hand porting the outlet about 10 - 15 cm's deep, then a plate is bolted up to the cover and the extrude honing process is applied to the internal part where the die grinder cant fit...

check out the pics!

-------------------------------------

we also flow tested the turbo's inlet to the comp wheel,
we compared 2 types of housings

my housing with the anti surge vents (4" inlet) and a gt35 3" housing (normal)
some interesting results!
the gt35 flowed about 100cfm more!
does this mean the anti surge vents are not desgined for high flow but rather low speed deisel engines?

i've got a few tests that ill be doing on my turbo on the dyno, but the normal tapered inlet of a 3" gt35 was far more effective than my 4" port shroud inlet, although it was claimed to be better

-question.. would flow testing the inlet port of the comp cover be a relevant test?


Feedback welcome!

 

[tharaka]

The porting looks great, I'm gonna guess it was expensive?

You've pretty much already figured out that the compressor inlet design you have isn't flowing better, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to flow test it to see exactly how bad its affecting the overall volume

But, even if you find out the results, can you change it anyway?

 

[bazeng]

the only way i could change it is by getting a tapered spun alloy piece that goes from 3" to 4" and weld it on..
ill be doing a test with the alloy, run it on the dyno and see how much power it makes as is.. and then with the tapered part..

if it improves, ill weld it on, if not, leave it off

 

[JETGSR]

Have already done the test! it will flow much better with the 4" bell fitted inside the nose. Have built a MR2 3SGTE makes about 550hp the only way you can get it to flow better than a bell is they can machine small vents into the resess of the intake ie: where your bell will be fitted.

It is a very time consuming process and yes expensive. But will yeild very good results, We are running a TO4E with a big comp wheel, but after getting an estimate price on the machining we opted for the bell idea.

So far so good 400hp at the treads from a 2ltr street car. and not that laggy. (and on pump fuel)

JETGSR

 

[CLuTZ]

Looks good baz!

What gains would you realistically expect from a power ported/extrude honed intake manifold?

 

[JSTYLE]

Looks good baz!

What gains would you realistically expect from a power ported/extrude honed intake manifold?

I was told.. to expect around 100-200CFM more flow...

which in lamens terms is ALOT more air..

Jon

 

[bazeng]

Looks good baz!

What gains would you realistically expect from a power ported/extrude honed intake manifold?

an extrude honed manifold will gain you about 8cfm more flow than stock
1cfm = as for power.. 1cfm supposably represents something like 4-10hp??..

but there have been tests stating that an extrude hone 1g manifold flows just as good as a sheet metal one...

 

[Entaran]

There are studies on this and the figures were 32% and 36% respectively on back to back testing using a USDM Manifold.

Extrude honing the cyclone intake isn't really feasible as it will eat away around the butterflies in the runners and obviously make it impossible for them to close fully beyond that.

What I am considering or what I was going to get (unsure) took figures from certain rpm's from 268cfm to 413 cfm. No i'm not getting more specific than this.

 

[bazeng]

okay guys

i just pulled out my printout of the info,

the CFM at .400 valve lift (in thou's)
stock = 233.22
honed = 241.59

which is only 8.37cfm more
which is a 2.8% gain over stock

which equals about 15-20hp gain.

here is the site.
http://www.ffwdconnection.com/intake_flowchart_data.htm

(FROM MACH V)

Extrude Hone is a company that specializes in smoothing metal components using an abrasive liquid that is forced through the part under high pressure. The result is that material is removed exactly where it would provide resistance to flowing air or exhaust. This process can add up to 20hp at this stage.

(Extrude Hone Success stories)
http://www.gethoned.com/success.html

its not cheap though, costs about 500 bux to do

 

[Entaran]

My point was that extrude honing on a cyclone manifold will ruin your day. You need to swap to aspec or usdm spec (same thing) manifold.

 

[CLuTZ]

My point was that extrude honing on a cyclone manifold will ruin your day. You need to swap to aspec or usdm spec (same thing) manifold.

Or N/A single runner?

I cant see it ruining anything?

 

[VR-4-PLAY]

[
Or N/A single runner?

didnt the later model E38a's come with a single runner intake?

 

[bazeng]

not too sure

if u were to extrude hone the cyclone, it'll open up the second runner therefor no seal..
not sure if it would ruin it, it would still work i guess but it'll leak air through..

but once again, dunno if it'll ruin performance..

 

[Entaran]

not too sure

if u were to extrude hone the cyclone, it'll open up the second runner therefor no seal..
not sure if it would ruin it, it would still work i guess but it'll leak air through..

but once again, dunno if it'll ruin performance..

There's a thread about this on DSMTuners, i'll see if I can dig it up. The jist was that it kills throttle response because it doesn't seal.

 

[bazeng]

There's a thread about this on DSMTuners, i'll see if I can dig it up. The jist was that it kills throttle response because it doesn't seal.

would it be possible to change the butterflies? because i agree that if u extrude hone the cylone, its designed to seal that runner and with the extrude honing, it will basically break that seal.. so it'll actually defeating the purpose in a way...

 

[Entaran]

I'm fairly sure the butterflies don't come out, I know iv'e tried to remove them once or twice and they won't budge and I can't see any way to actually get them out of the manifold. But if you know how to get them out, then I suppose you could get bigger ones... the problem then becomes that you don't get an even circle as it hones around, you'd have to get the die grinder out into where the butterflies seal and be DAMNED TALENTED to get perfect circles of equal diameter...

more trouble than it's worth?