Timing Belt Tensioner Hsg '97

[Django]

Hi everyone,

I have a Hypersports '97 model RVR 4G63t

I'm just wondering if the timing belt tensioner is a Hydraulic tensioner or a standard spring type, is there anything special i need to know before attempting to replace the timing belts, i'm doing the oil seals, the timing belt, balance shaft belt and the tensioner and idler bearings with a kit. The kit isn't cheap though, anyone know of any current suppliers doing reasonable prices, i checked meek.com.au but all they had for the RVR was a timing belt kit at $200 and a hydraulic tensioner priced at $220.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Also on a side note the RVR i bought has bad rust in the roof, this is from where factory sealant has gone inbetween the roof and the crossbeam supports and has absorbed water and caused rust on the roof and the supports, ie; everywhere the sealant is touching has rusted. Are there any other places known to rust on the body of these things because of this same problem? Has anyone else encountered this problem?

 

[Django]

http://www.ebay.com....=item2a1b45639e

It seems as though the tensioner is the spring type in this photo of the kit for sale on ebay, so i spose i answered my own post although any advice on what i should be making sure of upon doing this job would be of great help.

I have no idea what that thin rubber ring seal is for though, what would that be for?

 

[evo-gsr]

The tensioner needed is not even in the picture. They are bearings. The tensioner is not spring type its hydraulic.
If you dont know what you are even looking at, Im not sure this is a job you should be attempting as if its not done right your motor will end up fucked.

 

[evo-gsr]

Your better off buying the kit and tensioner from Meek if you are going to attempt it...at least you know they will supply you with the correct bits.

 

[Django]

Interesting, the attached link shows the tensioner being part of the kit, my mistake in saying that the tensioner is in the photo, if you look at the bottom of the page at the included components you will see timing belt tensioner. Your reply and what the link says are conflicting here. Are you saying this is just a bearing that attaches to the hydraulic tensioner? or simply that these motors use a hydraulic tensioner?

I have a good amount of experience in doing timing gear and am confident in my skills by the way, i have just never dealt with a hydraulic tensioner

Ok, cool so after some research you are right in that these have a hydraulic tensioner and what's listed on the link is simply the bearings, thanks for your reply. The timing belt on this car is very loose and i'm lucky to have found it after changing the rocker cover gasket today. It seems as though the rocker gaskets leaked oil has ventured into the timing case and ruined the belts aswell, also it sounds like the hydraulic tensioner has gone in it. Can i test the tensioner to see if its faulty once removed? as I've said I have not dealt with these before, any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[Rockabilly]

Genuine Evo 3 hydrolic tensioner is on my HSG. Shorter than the HSG original. Meek uses them.
The Idler on the right in the pic bellow is the noisy bugga btw. If you have done 50,000km on
a new timing belt kit (using the Evo 3 tensioner) & you have a slight noise, you can buy just
that idler pulley. Both belts on mine are Gates for a bit more belt strength.
Cheers

 

[evo-gsr]

I had no doubt that these engines use a hydraulic tensioner.

You can see the bearings/pulleys in the picture above which should be replaced at the same time as well as the tensioner I mentioned which is not pictured in the ebay link even though it may be part of the kit.

I have changed plenty of these in the past and would advise against using cheap shit AND doing the water pump while you are at it and have access to it while belts are off.

 

[Django]

Great, thanks for the replys guys, excellent

 

[Django]

Cheers for the edit Rockabilly, what kind of belts come with the Meek kit, anyone know? I'll give them a ring tomorrow and update the thread if no-one knows

 

[Django]

Ok, so just to update I called Meek and their kit comes with Gates racing belts. I Ended up sourcing a kit from my local engine rebuilder for $300 that includes timing belts, bearings and hydraulic tensioner and they are all OEM factory gear.

After looking around the net it seems a few people have noticed what I had described my problem to be where the belt had lost tension inbetween the cams and it souns like the tensioner loses pressure after sitting overnight and creates slack on the timing belt...

1. Can anyone clarify and or shed some light on this situation for me? 2. Could this slack cause problems upon initial startup being that the belt might skip a tooth?

When I aligned the motor to top dead centre, the two timing marks on the cams were facing each other however the mark on the exhaust side was out of alignment by what looked like exactly one tooth, is this normal or should those two marks be facing in perfect alignment with each other when at TDC.

Thanks guys, hope you are all having a good day, any response is greatly appreciated

 

[Django]

The motor will be pulled down over the weekend and all the parts including the water pump are going in it, The parts I sourced were for the Evo 3 however the guy said there are two different sizes in the kits regarding the hydraulic tensioner and I've got to to pull my one off and show it to him before we order.

For anyone trying to get a tensioner and belts I recommend getting them as a kit from your local engine rebuilder because it was $100 cheaper for me than going through Meek and they are all OEM Factory parts and included the tensioner.

Also an update to my last post which no-one had an answer for... an oil seal is leaking and the belt was slack upon shutting down the motor today. This I assume means the tensioner is stuffed and I'm replacing all belts cause they have been contaminated with oil from the leaking seal/s and or tensioner. Also when I Aligned the motor to top dead centre I hadn't got the lower timing case cover off and couldn't see the marks on the crank.

I simply aligned to TDC by pulling out No. 1 spark plug, disconnecting the other leads still connected from the coil packs and putting a toilet paper roll over the No. 1 cylinder with my hand covering the top and getting someone to crank the motor briefly until i got compression into the empty roll. After this I could see the piston at the top of it's stroke, however I'm still unsure if this was the TDC I was hoping to see.

Thanks for the help anyway guys, any more info is appreciated, I'm just gonna borrow the special tools from the workshop for re-assembly.

I have a manual for a Space runner Wagon '91 I downloaded so if I'm stuck at any stage I'm hoping this will do the job, however the motor shown in it is SOHC, so if anyone could confirm the correct placement of the top two cam alignment marks when they are on TDC that would be great.

Have a good one

 

[penngwyne]

How did it go?
I am just about to do my valve stem seals which involves removing the timing belt and camshafts etc and taking off a lot of the bits you have to.

Google search for manuals GR00003400-11D or GR00008000-11C (copy and paste)

Both are similar but the 11c has on vehicle service details that might be handy

 

[Django]

It all went very well in the end, thanks for the link, I ended up getting it somewhere I just can't remember where and my search history doesn't show it.

It was interesting because the guy at the motor rebuilding shop said not to compress these tensioners cause it will make them fail and my mechanic said it was fine to do so long as you compress it slowly and 'feel' it compressing.

Thanks for the interest in how it all went, the timing case cover had been broken in half on the centre case and the lower case had been broken on the upper right side when the mechanic before me had pulled it off. I found this to be because the lower case was a very tight squeeze to remove from the engine bay and the centre case seemed like it would have been a pain too although it may not have needed to have been broken. Also getting the pulleys back onto the water pump was a very tight squeeze, It would have been much easier if the motor was removed.

In my case the car was at 140 000kms with a belt change at 100 000kms and the mechanic had not replaced the cam seals!

Very happy with the car now, great to know everythings fine and dandy in there now.

so my only caution would be the warning from my local engine rebuilder saying that after these tensioners have been compressed they tend to fail. But with my mechanic saying he's done heaps of hydraulic tensioners (on other makes of car) you might be ok.

Maybe someone on here has done this and can shed some light for Penngwyne?

oh and btw ppl i had to heat the crank lug nut to crack it in the end.

 

[penngwyne]

Glad to hear it went well
I'm a bit sad as I have just checked my compression and it is woeful
Looks like I am up for a rebuild and I may as well do it properly
So I am starting to save up!

Re the tensioner. The method shown in the w/shop manual is to compress slowly using a vice but to be careful not to crush the dimple in the end by protecting it with a washer.
Otherwise you use the special long thready thing before you take it off the motor.

 

[Django]

i'd personally use the special tool to keep the tensioner tensioned. The tensioner on these don't have a hole in the back of them so compressing them would be fine without the washer as the pin won't come out the back of them like others. UNLESS my tensioner WAS replaced in the belt replacement at 100 000 and the replacement used didn't have a hole but the original did... but yes the new one i got had no hole also.

I'm also gald it all went well, it's great to hear it running well and to have no qualms about anything anymore, cheers.

 

[hyper gear]

I bought one few days a go from Turbo spares in cabramatta for $115 . Good price!

 

[Django]

For a hydraulic tensioner, that's a great price! Do you know what brand it is? I hear the dayco version of them mostly fail and usually pretty quickly.

 

[Rockabilly]

(Proven Evo 3 tensioner) std rest & gates belts ftw
Cheers

 

[Django]

Awesome, the kit I ended up with said Nason on it and had german branded belts, I can't remember the belts name now. The cam and crank seals were colored differently, either blue (cams) or brown (crank) as they were high temp seals. BTW definitely do the water pump while you have all the belts and pulleys off cause it's the only way to reach it! I bought another water pump thinking it was making bearing noise and found this out, luckily it wasn't the pump. It was my air con belt idler pulley, which BTW has a circlip in it so you can replace the old bearing!

Cheers

 

[hyper gear]

I dont remember the brand but it holds my timing belts tight in place.