Waste gate

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horse

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Joined
Jun 17, 2008
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104
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Townsville
Bro's, So far the Gt pumps turbo is holding it's own and I am very happy with it. I have a T3 manifold that GT pumps sending on the way TURBO INLET FLANGE SIZE: T3, 2 BOLT 38MM EXTERNAL WASTEGATE. I have a nice turbo smart 38mm wastegate which will bolt on to the manifold. Ok here's my issue the turbo I brought from GT pumps has the internal gate on it, how do I get around this? do i wield the internal gate close? or do I just hook it to the External gate as is? your help on this will be great.


Horse
 
as nigel said, you will have to weld the wastegate flapper shut. what gt pumps turbo it is? if it is a td05 then it wont bolt on to a t3 manifold.
 
as nigel said, you will have to weld the wastegate flapper shut. what gt pumps turbo it is? if it is a td05 then it wont bolt on to a t3 manifold.

Is there adapter for the td05 to fit on to the t3 manifold? sorry if it is a noob question.
 
No there isn't mate. Completely different.

ok mate what are my option's as I paid someone to make this for me in Townsville, stainless customs, the reason for the external gate was for the screamer pipe. Also the manifold looks way better in Stainless.
 
No there isn't mate. Completely different.

have a look at this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TURBO-MANIFOLD-FLANGE-ADAPTOR-T3-TD05-T25-T28-DSM-/170612534799 wondering if that will work mate? if so I'll get Stainless customs to make me one.
 
have a look at this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TURBO-MANIFOLD-FLANGE-ADAPTOR-T3-TD05-T25-T28-DSM-/170612534799 wondering if that will work mate? if so I'll get Stainless customs to make me one.
You were asking in another thread about if the td05-20g was a strait swap it would have been on an evo or ported vr4 manifold with an O2housing that made for an 070 housing, namely an evo 1-2 or evo 3 o2 housing....

If you were to use this adapter, it will put the turbo lower, your factory oil and water lines you could have used will need to be replaced with braided lines, you will need to look at how the exhaust will fit with the outlet flange from the O2housing lower now, air intake is in a different spot.

You had a nice "shinny" T3 manifold made up for a Mitsubishi flanged turbo? Just a slight oversight!
 
you will also want to get that external wastegate plumed back in unless you like attention from the boys in blue.
 
you would have been better off getting a GTpumps cast manifold and getting a nice shiny heat shield for it.

+1 to this man.
Looks way better than any shiny manifold and everything will bolt on (you might get away with the original exhaust manifold studs) but alas, your problem here is that you want an external gate like all kiwi's.
I've seen people remove the internal flapper and get a new dump made with that port feeding the inlet side of the wastegate, placing the wastegate just below the alternator, your option then to use a screamer pipe or recirc would be upto you.
Probably not the best way of going about it though, it'd be long winded.
What sort of boost do you wanna run through the engine? Is it critical to us an external gate? You're right though, the internal one isn't the best for regulating boost pressure.
As Gerard said, using an adaptor will more likely than not require you to use different fluid lines (esp for the water cos they're pretty solid), dump pipe, and possibly intake pipe depending on what your existing one is. That would be a real pain esp. when a 16G is 'bolt-on' (using the stock flange).
Has your fabricator already welded the T3 flange on?
 
You shouldn't need to run an external for stable boost control unless your going for around 25psi or over.
 
+1 to this man.
Looks way better than any shiny manifold and everything will bolt on (you might get away with the original exhaust manifold studs) but alas, your problem here is that you want an external gate like all kiwi's.
I've seen people remove the internal flapper and get a new dump made with that port feeding the inlet side of the wastegate, placing the wastegate just below the alternator, your option then to use a screamer pipe or recirc would be upto you.
Probably not the best way of going about it though, it'd be long winded.
What sort of boost do you wanna run through the engine? Is it critical to us an external gate? You're right though, the internal one isn't the best for regulating boost pressure.
As Gerard said, using an adaptor will more likely than not require you to use different fluid lines (esp for the water cos they're pretty solid), dump pipe, and possibly intake pipe depending on what your existing one is. That would be a real pain esp. when a 16G is 'bolt-on' (using the stock flange).
Has your fabricator already welded the T3 flange on?

Wife is kick me out of bed for what I have done now. I gave dane a call last nite about my car i.e the down low. The wonderful Dane said I should sale the shiny T3 manifold with the nice 38mm turbo smart external gate, and buy a Gt pump cast one and be done with it. So turbo smart is winning to take back the waste gate due to the customer buying laws in Australia yay the aussies =). Thats my $484 cash back, So Rob at GT pumps has a cast bolt on manifold for the vr4 price $380 free shipping. I'll try sale that shinny T3 manifold which cost me $987, and be done with the external gate as the boys in blue will keep on loving giving me a nice ticket.

Horse
 
You shouldn't need to run an external for stable boost control unless your going for around 25psi or over.

Gerard, boost is generally harder to control the lower the boost set point.

So for high boost pressures, a small wastegate might be enough, but if you want to run low boost then a larger wastegate will work much better.

Horse, that's what I'd be doing aswell buddy.
 
Gerard, boost is generally harder to control the lower the boost set point.

So for high boost pressures, a small wastegate might be enough, but if you want to run low boost then a larger wastegate will work much better.

Horse, that's what I'd be doing aswell buddy.
I'm not talking about boost creep up top, trying to keep from increasing towards redline, the larger flap and as cast poring of these gt pump rear housing will prevent that.
I'm talking about trying to keep the turbo to hold boost around 25psi all the way to redline and also not have it spike of say 2psi when you drop it down a gear back right on boost.
I never ran my gt pumps 20g with that cast ported rear housing, but when people push 16's they spike a few psi normally if you downshift and as they come on when your running a decent boost level, and i also experienced it on my td05-20g in a well ported 070 16g rear housing, i get a 1-2psi spike with it running 22psi, but tuning in the higher load cells accounts for that. People seem to go external when you need to get more stable boost and hold it all the way to redline.

So to push the turbo you going to have to look at tuning, the internal wastegate will easy get you to where you need to go before you need a better method of tuning than a generic chip that's not at least written on the dyno for your car, and then you can push the turbo and look an external gate to control boost.

Also, good luck trying to push the turbo over 20psi on a generic chip, my guess is it'll be too aggressive. I had a chip not from them, another good writer,and it'd knock all the time when turning the boost up over 14psi, it had aggressive timing and relying on the ecu to pull timing all the time after getting knock. The car felt great but i recon chips have their place in running moderate boost levels, unless the car it tuned on the dyno with the chip, or your stuffing around with a safc trying to tune the afr's i think you'll have trouble getting it tuning safe around and over 20psi, on a generic chip.

Im pretty sure chips cant add more load areas top the map than the number on a stock map, you just changing the tune, if im correct....

If you did tell them how much boost you want to run they could have made the made the high load points are a lot softer tune, but after the load points for roughly 7psi, then the next row is 10psi, then you have one more row and that's it. So after this you have run out of resolution. You'll be starting to interpolate into this load area as you start running over 10psi. There was no need for more rows as boost cut is around 14psi stock.

So for example when you running 15psi, you'll be in the same load cells as when you run 25psi as you have no more room to move on the map.
If they have wrote the chip tune to run 25psi on pump fuel, it'll be quit slow running anny less boost.
Or if its aggressive and you try run over 20psi it'll likely you'll knock its head off, especially if it has octane reset so it cant "learn" and reduce timing as its get a lot of knock quite often, its reset every time the car is switched off.
Have a look at the 1g timing map on this guys site, shows the 1G timing map load cells and roughly what boost level they correspond to. http://www.jeffgst.com/id20.html

The chip will likely do you good running 15psi and maybe approaching 20, depending on how aggressive they wrote it. But is far from ideal trying to push the turbo past this, if you relying on the engine to knock, then ecu to retard timing all the time, you letting it knock hard in the first place so putting stress on the motor.
The only way to get more resolution is go and ecmlink or some other ecu.
 
I'm not talking about boost creep up top, trying to keep from increasing towards redline, the larger flap and as cast poring of these gt pump rear housing will prevent that.
I'm talking about trying to keep the turbo to hold boost around 25psi all the way to redline and also not have it spike of say 2psi when you drop it down a gear back right on boost.
I never ran my gt pumps 20g with that cast ported rear housing, but when people push 16's they spike a few psi normally if you downshift and as they come on when your running a decent boost level, and i also experienced it on my td05-20g in a well ported 070 16g rear housing, i get a 1-2psi spike with it running 22psi, but tuning in the higher load cells accounts for that. People seem to go external when you need to get more stable boost and hold it all the way to redline.

So to push the turbo you going to have to look at tuning, the internal wastegate will easy get you to where you need to go before you need a better method of tuning than a generic chip that's not at least written on the dyno for your car, and then you can push the turbo and look an external gate to control boost.

Also, good luck trying to push the turbo over 20psi on a generic chip, my guess is it'll be too aggressive. I had a chip not from them, another good writer,and it'd knock all the time when turning the boost up over 14psi, it had aggressive timing and relying on the ecu to pull timing all the time after getting knock. The car felt great but i recon chips have their place in running moderate boost levels, unless the car it tuned on the dyno with the chip, or your stuffing around with a safc trying to tune the afr's i think you'll have trouble getting it tuning safe around and over 20psi, on a generic chip.

Im pretty sure chips cant add more load areas top the map than the number on a stock map, you just changing the tune, if im correct....

If you did tell them how much boost you want to run they could have made the made the high load points are a lot softer tune, but after the load points for roughly 7psi, then the next row is 10psi, then you have one more row and that's it. So after this you have run out of resolution. You'll be starting to interpolate into this load area as you start running over 10psi. There was no need for more rows as boost cut is around 14psi stock.

So for example when you running 15psi, you'll be in the same load cells as when you run 25psi as you have no more room to move on the map.
If they have wrote the chip tune to run 25psi on pump fuel, it'll be quit slow running anny less boost.
Or if its aggressive and you try run over 20psi it'll likely you'll knock its head off, especially if it has octane reset so it cant "learn" and reduce timing as its get a lot of knock quite often, its reset every time the car is switched off.
Have a look at the 1g timing map on this guys site, shows the 1G timing map load cells and roughly what boost level they correspond to. http://www.jeffgst.com/id20.html

The chip will likely do you good running 15psi and maybe approaching 20, depending on how aggressive they wrote it. But is far from ideal trying to push the turbo past this, if you relying on the engine to knock, then ecu to retard timing all the time, you letting it knock hard in the first place so putting stress on the motor.
The only way to get more resolution is go and ecmlink or some other ecu.

The Fuel pump is warlbro, and the chip is from meeks right now its running 17 psi with no issues and the engine knocks have gone. The issue is the stock ecu , and i also had some bad air hose leaks all over the place which has been replaced. My only thoughts is to save up for a 20g and ecu and start from that. Atm I am happy with the old girl its like she has a new set of legs.
 
Id recommend going an ecmlink rather than a full ecu next, either the full version or the lite has plenty to get you started. You can keep a lot of you factory controls so the car runs well, compared to an ecu that isn't made for the car.
 

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