weird clutch failure, opinions sort

[BMGTZ]

here is a weird one, I have had the exedy five puck clutch in the my white lancer GSR for about 650 kms.

on saturday while doing some run in kms it started to shudder a little.....sunday the shudder became extreme. tonight I cant even get it into first..to move it..its as tho it isnt disengaging at all.

so because the the take up point had changed a lot.....on the floor!! I adjusted the push rod in the master cylinder thinking well that will fix it.......nuh. still not going into gear.

there is a strange vibration there as well....if you push the clutch and then let it out as the gear box starts to spin there is heavy vibration through the car.....whack the clutch in again vibration gone. let it out slowly still no vibbration...repeat it and it comes back.

there is also a hard spot in the pedal travel, at about 3/4 travel. you can push really hard and it will go to the floor but the clutch still doesnt release.

there isnt any leaks.....but I am thinking master cylinder is knackered.......that however doesnt explain the vibration.

anyone have and informed opinion.

shit I hate pulling out gearboxes..:fuuuuu:..IT will have to wait till im better anyway

brian

 

[TMAK]

i don't have a gsr/evo but have the same problem.. i just swapped my master cylinder and still won't engage first while motor is on..
i will be pulling out the box on wednesday but hoping someone knows what the issue is..

 

[DOUGMO]

broken prongs on the pressure plate maybe

 

[to4garret]

first thoughts,


collapsed release bearing,
broken friction plate springs,
worn friction plate splines from not using gearbox to engine locating dowels,
bent/broken pressure plate fingers.


place your bets now.

 

[BMGTZ]

I am going to change the master cylinder first.....living in hope yeah i know...then out with the box.

 

[EVO-00X]

Do we win a prize if we get it right? lol
Had to read what you wrote a few times as there's a lot of symptoms and some cancel out other possible causes.

Can eliminate a broken clutch disc as the symptoms dont make sense. That'll be the number 1 cause of failure Id tihnk of immediately as some clutch diskcs are built shithouse and the springs can pop out of them due to as lack of metal around them to keep them inside the disc. Anyhow, I dont think its the cause.

The pressure plate prongs should still be good if it releases and doesnt release sometimes. If they were rooted it wouldnt release at all.

The Master cyl/slave cyl could be an option as well. Whenever you're getting some good pressure in it, it appears to release and give up. You sure there arent any leaks? But then again, it doesnt explain the vibrations unless the clutch disc is chattering on the flywheel in the rested position (did you have the flywheel stepped?)

Last of all which engine do you have? VR4/ EVO/ RVR?
If EVO/RVR part of the symptoms sound like crankwalk (not disengaging, bad vibrations) because as soon as you put in a h/duty high clamping force pressure plate, you're pushing that crank even more than before. Get someone to push the clutch in whilst you look for movement at the crank pulley at the front of the engine.

 

[BMGTZ]

the engine is a 6 boly vr4 and it only done 650 klm so i hope its not crank walk.....I did an oil change on sunday and the oil looked good ....no silver shit.

the flywheel was ground and stepped.......I am thinking there is not just one issue here and will replace the master cyl....then move on from there

 

[cwolf]

hey brian my 1st thought would be flywheel bolts that have come loose.
had the problem before and your symptoms sound similar.


craig

 

[EVO-00X]

Cool, if its 6 bolt then it would rule out crankwalk. Its gotta be clutch/pressure plate related.

 

[mannynz]

pressure plate related
or
loose fly wheel bolt

 

[CLuTZ]

loose fly wheel bolt

I was just about to suggest that too.....

 

[EVO-00X]

You did tighten them up to spec with loctite didnt you? lol

 

[BMGTZ]

yep...I speced them up


.but some of them I couldnt get in so I cut the heads off and stuck it in with blue silicon.....thats ok isnt it? ...dont laugh this was once said to me by a guy that worked for a very short time fitting bull bars for the 4wd accessories company i was at......he was serious too

some good points for me to look for here and I do appreciate your feed back

I have ordered a new master cylinder and will whack that in first....to be honest I am not so much worried by the fact that it doesnt disengage the clutch. that should be easy enough to figure out.....its the vibration worrying me. if the flywheel had come loose would there be an accompanting knock sound? there is no bad noises coming out of it

ah time will tell.....meh

 

[EVO-00X]

but some of them I couldnt get in so I cut the heads off and stuck it in with blue silicon.....thats ok isnt it? ...dont laugh this was once said to me by a guy that worked for a very short time fitting bull bars for the 4wd accessories company i was at......he was serious too

WTF??? You didnt cut flywheel bolts did you? if you did you just put it out of balance and some of those bolts have worked loose!!! When you see the guy again punch him in the face! lol

 

[BMGTZ]

nah mate they were all the same length...and loctite applied.

probably wont be seeing him again....he is in the can. he wasnt that clever and got caught walking around with a pistol shoved in the back of his pants while he was breaking into his girl friends house.....but the thought of punching him in the face was there every day I worked with him.

 

[mannynz]

You would not want your flywheel to be loose.
If that come off at high rpm it will go through the gearbox housing and maybe through the firewall too then straingh between your legs.

 

[BMGTZ]

strangely i cant get a new clutch master cyl so having the old one sleeved tomorrow. it was very pitted and showed very slight leak....but the nylon bit inside was very deformed when compared to another one!!

 

[BMGTZ]

combined problems were

One bell housing bolt completely gone...two were loose as well. dont know why .....maybe I just didnt tighten then enough....or vibration issue.

front roll stopper destroyed ......probably from the shudder

master cylinder had more craters in the bore than the moon has craters on it.

fixed now and sweet again