When is a 4" exhaust system beneficial
- Thread starter Smutt
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Just to clear things up about gutting cat converters, if you do and are found guilty by the DECC you can face up to a $10,000 fine. For the sake of some lost power and poisoning the people of this earth its insane to do so and not worth it (with the exception of race cars). There are several hi-flow cats in the market that wont rob as much power as the generic cats do so please invest in a good hi-flow cat instead of naively gutting the internals of yours making the rest of us breathe in toxic gasses that can cause anything from asthma to cancer, not to mention depleting the ozone and excessively contributing to global warming! Anyone who guts a cat in their street car deserves to be issued with a fine IMO as you can make in excess of 300kw atw with a cat still in place easy :thumbsdown:
Furthermore, the DECC inspection stations setup in NSW and VIC (and possibly other states now) will defect ALL hi-flow non OEM cats in the following instances:
a) if there is no proof or stamping of ADR compliance on them.
b) if there is no emissions test to back up that it still meets emissions after fitment of the hi-flow cat.
c) if they are welded in and not flange bolted on both ends for easy removal/inspection (if its welded in its instantly deemed tampered with).
d) if they deem that it or any other part of your intake, exhaust or fuel system has been tampered with under their Anti-tampering Inspection Scheme.
...thems the rules the DECC plays by and they can defect you 100% of the time for point d) anytime they want, unless you satisfy points a, b and c with proof to back it up.
You can argue til you go blue in the face but the DECC are just the puppet enforcing the ADR's/Legislation, they dont make the rules. I have just received a response to my complaint directly sent to Chris Kelly, the head of the DECC Vehicle Compliance section and its a rather sterile and bland response as you can expect from a Govt department. It only re-iterates what I already knew and complained about - so its fkn useless in my opinion, but the impression I got is that they only enforce whats written in several ADRs. To change the ADRs you need to get the backing from a Member of Parliament willing to voice it in the monkey cage (Parliament House).
I also questioned the practices of the representative at one of the local DECC Approved Inspection Stations and made formal complaint about what that particular person was or was not explaining to people when issueing defects. It was good to know that at least they followed up on this particular cowboy and know that at least people are watching what they are doing closely and they cant just make up the rules as they seem fit.
I am currently working with another guy in the RTA, as well as the backing of some Vehicle Inspectors, to make a formal submission to a MOP about the inconsistencies and inequalities in regard to vehicle exhaust noise for new so called 'green' cars and cars made between 1984-2004. There's other issues we will raise in regard to emissions as well, but it will just take time and the backing of the people of Australia to stand up and sign an online petition to get the noise level increased from the rediculous 90db limit to at least a more realistic 95db for starters. We have had many people in stock 90's models cars present to us with defective OEM exhaust systems over the 90db limit as tested by the DECC! People in normal everyday cars even!
If you've got the time to read and get pissed off at what is going on under our noses and behind closed doors read on and prepare to get angry because this is the type of shit I am talking about and need people to help raise the awareness of it!!!
There is an Exhaust Noise Signature Data list of late model vehicles from 2004+ on the DOTARS website that I URGE ALL OF YOU TO LOOK AT AND READ ON http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/environment/noise.aspx . This website has a list of vehicles under the heading “ADR83/00 Stationery Noise Signature Data Supplementary Spreadsheet". You will find within this spreadsheet a list of 2004+ vehicles which the DECC and DOTARS consider ‘Green Cars’. Many of these so called ‘Green Cars’ are making well in excess of the 90db noise limit straight from the factory floor. Not only are many signature levels exceeding the limit, but they also have the OK to make up to 5db higher readings than the base signature level written in the list. An example would be a Porsche Turbo with a 96db signature level sold off the showroom floor. It is allowed an extra 5db increase to account for wear and tear in the exhaust system which will take it up to 101db!!!. In the eyes of the law it is considered OK & LEGAL!. So let me get this right, it’s a ‘green car’ making in excess of 100db!!! A Maseratti holds the highest db level at 118db! If these newer 2004+ model cars are OK to make so much exhaust noise then why are the pre 2004 model vehicles, whose exhaust systems have obviously worn out over the years, subjected to comply to an unrealistic blanket level of 90db? It’s a contradiction the average Australian motorist knows nothing about. To put it simply it’s a farce!
The older a car gets the more noise it tends to make as the engine internals wear, the more noise it makes as the exhaust system and muffler wear, and the more emissions it makes as the engine internals and catalytic converter wears… knowing this, why is such an unrealistic target set for exhaust noise levels for pre-2004 model vehicles? Your average 1990’s model turbocharged cars and high capacity engines would fail the noise test unless they were restricted way beyond the exhaust flow intended by the manufacturers. Even with a new exhaust system the engine internals are not new. This unrealistic target has been in operation for a few years now but it has not been until recently that the DECC have started to really enforce it. One can only ask why haven’t DOTARS and the DECC included pre 2004 model vehicles in the DOTARS signature data spreadsheet? (easy targets and a means to make some $$ perhaps?)
What they dont realise is that in their quest to quieten cars down they are actually increasing greenhouse gasseous emissions and doing the environment more harm than good! If you restrict a car's exhaust system the more heat it will generate, the more oil it will burn, the more fuel it will dump into the intake to cool engine temps down, the quicker the engine and cat converter and exhaust system will wear, and all these things lead to more emissons!!
Oh and for the record and proof that they are surprise ass-f*cking us from behind without us knowing about it, in the Signature noise list they have purposely omitted and blanked out the db level for high performance turbo Jap cars like the Evo Lancer and Subaru WRX so that the public is kept unaware of how much db these popular turbo cars make OEM. Therefore if the car doesnt have a db level next to it in that list then they cant get +5db and are therefore restricted to the blanket 90db exhaust noise limit like every other car between 1986-2004.
Read it a few times, you'll get the idea and then understand what a gross injustice has been going on without you knowing about it! :thumbsdown:
Furthermore, the DECC inspection stations setup in NSW and VIC (and possibly other states now) will defect ALL hi-flow non OEM cats in the following instances:
a) if there is no proof or stamping of ADR compliance on them.
b) if there is no emissions test to back up that it still meets emissions after fitment of the hi-flow cat.
c) if they are welded in and not flange bolted on both ends for easy removal/inspection (if its welded in its instantly deemed tampered with).
d) if they deem that it or any other part of your intake, exhaust or fuel system has been tampered with under their Anti-tampering Inspection Scheme.
...thems the rules the DECC plays by and they can defect you 100% of the time for point d) anytime they want, unless you satisfy points a, b and c with proof to back it up.
You can argue til you go blue in the face but the DECC are just the puppet enforcing the ADR's/Legislation, they dont make the rules. I have just received a response to my complaint directly sent to Chris Kelly, the head of the DECC Vehicle Compliance section and its a rather sterile and bland response as you can expect from a Govt department. It only re-iterates what I already knew and complained about - so its fkn useless in my opinion, but the impression I got is that they only enforce whats written in several ADRs. To change the ADRs you need to get the backing from a Member of Parliament willing to voice it in the monkey cage (Parliament House).
I also questioned the practices of the representative at one of the local DECC Approved Inspection Stations and made formal complaint about what that particular person was or was not explaining to people when issueing defects. It was good to know that at least they followed up on this particular cowboy and know that at least people are watching what they are doing closely and they cant just make up the rules as they seem fit.
I am currently working with another guy in the RTA, as well as the backing of some Vehicle Inspectors, to make a formal submission to a MOP about the inconsistencies and inequalities in regard to vehicle exhaust noise for new so called 'green' cars and cars made between 1984-2004. There's other issues we will raise in regard to emissions as well, but it will just take time and the backing of the people of Australia to stand up and sign an online petition to get the noise level increased from the rediculous 90db limit to at least a more realistic 95db for starters. We have had many people in stock 90's models cars present to us with defective OEM exhaust systems over the 90db limit as tested by the DECC! People in normal everyday cars even!
If you've got the time to read and get pissed off at what is going on under our noses and behind closed doors read on and prepare to get angry because this is the type of shit I am talking about and need people to help raise the awareness of it!!!
There is an Exhaust Noise Signature Data list of late model vehicles from 2004+ on the DOTARS website that I URGE ALL OF YOU TO LOOK AT AND READ ON http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/environment/noise.aspx . This website has a list of vehicles under the heading “ADR83/00 Stationery Noise Signature Data Supplementary Spreadsheet". You will find within this spreadsheet a list of 2004+ vehicles which the DECC and DOTARS consider ‘Green Cars’. Many of these so called ‘Green Cars’ are making well in excess of the 90db noise limit straight from the factory floor. Not only are many signature levels exceeding the limit, but they also have the OK to make up to 5db higher readings than the base signature level written in the list. An example would be a Porsche Turbo with a 96db signature level sold off the showroom floor. It is allowed an extra 5db increase to account for wear and tear in the exhaust system which will take it up to 101db!!!. In the eyes of the law it is considered OK & LEGAL!. So let me get this right, it’s a ‘green car’ making in excess of 100db!!! A Maseratti holds the highest db level at 118db! If these newer 2004+ model cars are OK to make so much exhaust noise then why are the pre 2004 model vehicles, whose exhaust systems have obviously worn out over the years, subjected to comply to an unrealistic blanket level of 90db? It’s a contradiction the average Australian motorist knows nothing about. To put it simply it’s a farce!
The older a car gets the more noise it tends to make as the engine internals wear, the more noise it makes as the exhaust system and muffler wear, and the more emissions it makes as the engine internals and catalytic converter wears… knowing this, why is such an unrealistic target set for exhaust noise levels for pre-2004 model vehicles? Your average 1990’s model turbocharged cars and high capacity engines would fail the noise test unless they were restricted way beyond the exhaust flow intended by the manufacturers. Even with a new exhaust system the engine internals are not new. This unrealistic target has been in operation for a few years now but it has not been until recently that the DECC have started to really enforce it. One can only ask why haven’t DOTARS and the DECC included pre 2004 model vehicles in the DOTARS signature data spreadsheet? (easy targets and a means to make some $$ perhaps?)
What they dont realise is that in their quest to quieten cars down they are actually increasing greenhouse gasseous emissions and doing the environment more harm than good! If you restrict a car's exhaust system the more heat it will generate, the more oil it will burn, the more fuel it will dump into the intake to cool engine temps down, the quicker the engine and cat converter and exhaust system will wear, and all these things lead to more emissons!!
Oh and for the record and proof that they are surprise ass-f*cking us from behind without us knowing about it, in the Signature noise list they have purposely omitted and blanked out the db level for high performance turbo Jap cars like the Evo Lancer and Subaru WRX so that the public is kept unaware of how much db these popular turbo cars make OEM. Therefore if the car doesnt have a db level next to it in that list then they cant get +5db and are therefore restricted to the blanket 90db exhaust noise limit like every other car between 1986-2004.
Read it a few times, you'll get the idea and then understand what a gross injustice has been going on without you knowing about it! :thumbsdown:
how the fuk do you class a sports car as a green car? that's just crap. there was a lambo in the city today that half deafened me when it went past. could hear it many many blocks away driving around the city too. bullshit that car's green.
half these euro cars have valves in the mufflers anyways!! varex is illegal, but if the computer controls it, no worries. wtf?
end of the day... really seems that is to favour the rich people who can afford the top end sports cars, and screw the people who want the more budget options.
is good you're doing something about it. try to diversify perhaps? then you wont get a blanket response. you need to address multiple sections/departments if possible, then they will debate with each other what they will reply to you = they cant give you a blanket response.
half these euro cars have valves in the mufflers anyways!! varex is illegal, but if the computer controls it, no worries. wtf?
end of the day... really seems that is to favour the rich people who can afford the top end sports cars, and screw the people who want the more budget options.
is good you're doing something about it. try to diversify perhaps? then you wont get a blanket response. you need to address multiple sections/departments if possible, then they will debate with each other what they will reply to you = they cant give you a blanket response.
