37 replies to this topic

[Evo-00x]

One of the boys messaged me the other day and said that the front wheel on his GSR started vibrating and felt like it was going to fall off. When he pulled over to check what the cause was he noticed that the camber bolt on the D2 suspension had worn into the aluminium, thus loosening off the nut to the point of it completely coming off. The suspension was held in by the loose bolt only!!! L-U-C-K-Y !!!! :eek: I got him to send me a pic of it ASAP.

In my opinion it appears a combination of two things have caused it. 1. The standard camber bolts dont have washers on them at the bolt's head so it appears that when tightening them up they dig into the soft wall of the alluminium strut; and 2. Add the constant shock of stiff suspension and hub bouncing up and down + lateral forces exerted on the hub when steering left and right + take off and braking is causing the alloy to develop a tollerance (especially inside an elongated hole) and begin to work the bolts loose. The thickness of the alloy there doesnt appear to be very wide either so even if the nut stays on there is still a risk of the bolt cutting deeper into the alloy, or the hole elongating even more until the alloy snaps off :eek:

Let this be a warning to those boys with aluminium struts, of any brand name, to check the bolts often to make sure shit like this isnt happening to you because it could spell disaster at any given speed!

If you notice the bolt head digging into the strut its probably best if you remove the camber bolts and if its not too far gone fit a flat steel washer on the head side of the bolt if possible, and add a dab of loctite on the nut side for precaution. Some aftermarket camber bolts might be round to assist camber adjustment so you might not be able to use a washer on it.

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Edited by EVO-00X, 28 January 2009 - 12:10 PM.
Pic added

[3zercrowd]

Yeouch:eek:

No good.....

[ShaunEVO]

oh man...i hope this isnt a common problem

[DOUGMO]

its really a design fault,for example dms have the slotted holes too (like the d2s)but have washers with offset holes that cannot spin once bolted in at all because there is a lip around the elongated hole to hold it into place

[JAP63]

Rob 323.....Just speaking of this werent you!

[DOUGMO]

yep,i think rob was refering more so about how hard it would be too keep a good alignment on them especially if you hit a pothole or big bump etc and the bolt can no longer hold the knuckle firmly in place in the strut which means it can move

[Evo-00x]

Yep I just read that other thread too.... Rob's talking about this very shit ^^^^ happening What a coincidence! Just goes to show that 2 Robs make a Right! lol

A couple of things I DON'T like about some of the coil overs around atm (mainly applies to G4's as that is what I have had direct experience with, but may apply to others):
1. They use an aluminium foot on them and some (eg. G4) have oversized holes in the foot to allow additional camber adjustment. So basically they rely on the two strut/ hub bolts being done up nice and tight and the resultant friction is what locks it together and keeps your wheel alignment from changing. Hit a small pothole while cornering and I doubt that friction would be enough to prevent the alignment from being screwed up. I have seen shocks with steel feet end up with elongated holes cause the bolts were not done up tight enough and the slopping around wore the holes and caused horrible changes in camber and therefore in toe as well (say bye bye tyres). It also worries me that even though you tighten up those two strut/hub bolts properly, over time, there is the chance that the aluminium feet will compress where the bolts are and your once tight bolt is now a loose bolt therefore they should be constantly checked.

2. The g4's I had a play with only seemed to have adjstable rebound. The bump rate was very soft and seemed to remain unchanged. This to me just seems plain wrong. In comparison, some old Koni's I have have a fixed rebound but the bump rate is adjustable. This makes more sense to me as you don't want your suspension bottoming out all the time.

In anycase Jamie, have a look at the actual product, keep in mind the above, and make up your own mind as to whether they are suitable for you or not.

By the way, the latest Hotbits are rumoured to have seperately adjustable bump and rebound .

[rob323]

OMG, all I have to do is think it, and IT HAPPENS!

[Dean]

There you go, thats why it pays to not buy cheap stuff.
Looks good at the time, but will cost you more in the long run.

[VR-4Squid]

OMG, all I have to do is think it, and IT HAPPENS!

If you could perhaps thing generous amounts of money falling from the sky for us mitsi owners it'd be appreciated

How thick are those bits on the D2's? they don't look to be much thicker than the steel bits on my cusco's...

[MatS]

Oh damn, that's not a good result at all.

[evopwr]

another reason to go quality brand coilovers

-alex

[JAP63]

I gonna put my neck out on the chopping block here.. im not supporting D2's...buuuuuuuuuut

Have a closer look at the pic, theres no washer, if you used a large surface area "panel" washer to distribute the load along a bigger area of the alloy, then it might not do this, or not do it as badly, its only common sense, especially if you put some lubricant under the head of the washer to bolt......

Steel is harder than alloy right, then a turning steel head against alloy will chew the shit out of the alloy...the washer would help...alot..and lubricant between the bolt head and washer face will ensure the steel washer dont spin on the alloy shock.

The bottom bolt doesnt have a washer either, tell your mate to put washers on it...

Alternatively, a tube (steel) running through the centre of the knuckle hub and to the outer shock mount, made size for size with the bolt would also stop movement an help the hole thing..OR, if you wanna get real silly, and have access to a lathe, make top-hat bushes to sit in the slots of the shock leg to the inner hub, and lock that whole slotted lower hole camber adjustment thing completely out.

Just some thoughts...


Libreoz...Had any issues with your K-Sport lower mounts? Theyre alloy...

Edited by JAP63, 29 January 2009 - 01:34 AM.

[runuts]

When I ran D2's, they actually came with a large washer to go on this area. I did approx 5,000kms with them, was not even barely a mark on them when I removed them.

On the topic of D2's though, I actually found them to be great. I did however have some bilstein inserts put in them, but funnily enough, they seemed to work better when stock.

I've since sold them, and are using GAB's, but have had no drama's with them. Most of the rubbish you see posted on the internet regarding them is usually not exactly truthful. I'm sure you have all seen the bent/broken front shock, I think its on a S14. I'd like to see any shock survive the crash impact that car had.

[JAP63]

I've since sold them, and are using GAB's, but have had no drama's with them. Most of the rubbish you see posted on the internet regarding them is usually not exactly truthful. I'm sure you have all seen the bent/broken front shock, I think its on a S14. I'd like to see any shock survive the crash impact that car had.

Exactly what i was thinking, i hate misinformed forums of posted photos, that photo makes people think the shock just snapped out of no where!, and it always appears as that one car, the s14, ive never seen another photo of a broken one

So on the street, the D2's were ok then Todd? no gripes...

[Evo-00x]

They're not meant for the street, thats the thing. Steel is harder than alloy and wherever you have steel and alloy meet the alloy comes out worse of. Look at the bolt under it, there is a circular scratch mark around it probably from a ring spanner or socket holding it whilst the nut side was being tightened. Sometimes they turn and you cant help it as everyone knows new and shiny anodised alloy components scratch the first time you put them on, and then get worse the more times you remove and refit them - they eventually look like shit lol.

You could also argue that when the top bolt came loose it caused the bottom bolt to move about and dig in also. A washer would give you a larger surface area to decreae the chance of the bolt head from digging into the alloy and its a good idea for people to do exactly that. But the fact of the matter regardless of how it was tightened is that its still a soft alloy. Adding another thing like a washer in the equation adds another item that has to compress and increases the chances of tolerances developing. If the bolts dig into the alloy that easily then the aloy is really not fit for the job IMO, especially everyday driving over bumps and humps on normal roads. On the track where roads are smooth is another story as you would get a lot more use out of them.

I had a look on D2 website and they stipulate that they are not meant to be used on normal roads or any other rough surfaces.... yet they advertise their suspension on rally cars?? WTF? its very contradicting lol

[rob323]

I do not know of anyone up here rallying with D2's. I do know of a guy successfully rallying in NSW with Hotbits though.

[runuts]

On the street, my D2's were brilliant. Better when standard than with the expensive bilstein inserts.

I don't think the problem as Rob has pointed out is due to the alloy compressing. Of course it will compress slightly, it is a softer material. That said though, unless the bolt was moving, it would not be causing it to dig into the lower portion of the D2 shock. Maybe the bolts weren't torqued to spec. Maybe they came loose over time, but being loose has obviously caused it to be very abrasive against the alloy.

In some 5000kms of street driving, mine had nothing more than a slight impression/scraping of the anodising from where it was done up, that was it.

[to4garret]

i had the same issue as the first post, however, mine did not get to the stage as in the image. in fact mine have not dug into the foot at all.

i've sinced put some external star washers on and the problem has vanished and i've done a few *jumps* too

im happy for the price i paid, and also the ability to get them customised to the borg for next to nothing.

[JAP63]

They're not meant for the street, thats the thing. Steel is harder than alloy and wherever you have steel and alloy meet the alloy comes out worse of. Look at the bolt under it, there is a circular scratch mark around it probably from a ring spanner or socket holding it whilst the nut side was being tightened. Sometimes they turn and you cant help it as everyone knows new and shiny anodised alloy components scratch the first time you put them on, and then get worse the more times you remove and refit them - they eventually look like shit lol.

Agree

But the fact of the matter regardless of how it was tightened is that its still a soft alloy.

Agree

Adding another thing like a washer in the equation adds another item that has to compress and increases the chances of tolerances developing.

Dissagree, Theres no difference there between the coefficient of expansion between a steel bolt and a steel washer, theyre both steel...I do no what you mean, however, IMO it wouldnt matter at all, not if the correct torque is used..
A washer is used to spread the load engagement, and if used correctly will not all all effect the positive clamp of the fastner...it just an aid for surface contact...What about old mate with the light blue coupe? ENGINR..lol, hed know, being a mech engineer...getting technical arent we...!

In summation though, yes, a steel lower leg would be waaaay better

BTW, do D2 and these sort of companies specify torque settings for these feet mounts?..go too tight, and you will f*ck the alloy..thats 4 sure..

Edited by JAP63, 29 January 2009 - 09:51 AM.