145 replies to this topic

[marinetowing]

I think if this would be to work it would make sense to heed ziad's words and set your sights a little lower for a first event.

Jon have you ever been involved in organising a motorsport event? 200-300 cars is slightly head in the clouds material don't you think?
I follow my local car club fairly closely and have a reasonable idea on the organising nightmare it takes to run a successful hillclim or sprint day which generally caters for a max entry of 45 cars- it is a hell of a lot of work and the numbers you are suggesting are slightly ambitious for (sorry I dont want to be rude or negative) a forum that struggles to get 10 cars turn up at a meet. Meaning that to be successful it will require interstate interest.

The suggestion that Winton is too far away...for who? do you assume that these "300" car of which you speak will all come from the centre of Melbourne?
Winton is a great track, hell I made the trip from Tassie to participate in the Nats and would do it again.
Haunted hills is also a brilliant suggestion, although I have never been there the pics and feedback from people who have make it look like an excellent facility.
You need to consider keeping entry costs as low as possible and providing maximum value for that entry fee as a lot of people will be making the pilgramige from interstate which is generally an expensive task alone without paying a large entry and receiving very little value for it.
Take the Evonats for example which was a very well run event and numbers were capped at a realistic level, the entry fee was similar that of your suggestion a well organised track day was held at a top notch circuit with plenty of runs to keep everyone satisfied, a well catered dinner was included after the track day with relevent guest speakers through the evening and on the sunday there was another motorsport day with the choice of a motokhana course or an unbelievably good short circuit at the deca facility. After tthe events was held I was given a $100 travel subsidy for attending from interstate. That in my eyes is great value for money even after spending $800 alone on getting my car across Bass Strait then paying for fuel,meals and accomodation during the event and I would do it again without hesitation due to the value for money it represented.

The track component of the proposal sounds great but the Sunday with the 300 cars and the $175 fee to have 3 goes at "go to whoa" does not sound like something that would warrant the huge cost of travelling and attending the event, and many interstate people may feel the same way.

Sorry again for sounding negative but as you will be requiring interstate attendants to make up the viable numbers value for money needs to be considered to make the travel cost seem justified.

[JSTYLE]

well arent you just mr negative...

everything at the moment is just 'suggestions' and obviously is not set in stone so maybe take some of the prices as rough guess? i honestly have no idea how much its going to cost...

fyi 200 4g powered cars from melb is not out of the question..

Jon

[marinetowing]

well arent you just mr negative...

everything at the moment is just 'suggestions' and obviously is not set in stone so maybe take some of the prices as rough guess? i honestly have no idea how much its going to cost...

fyi 200 4g powered cars from melb is not out of the question..

Jon

No I was looking along the lines of realism.

[JSTYLE]

from my personal view i would pay 100-150 to be part of the events day
track work not really my thing and i couldnt be fucked setting the car up with semi comps alignments etc.. so i guess im that minority that isnt really interested in the track day...

and in regards to the 200 4gs there are plenty of melbourne clubs with plenty of 4gs.. wouldnt be that hard to get over 100 cars and upwards of 200.

lets be real.. ull get more cars at the 'events day' then you will at the track day.. and obviously you will make up the numbers during the events day...

Jon

[Liberoz]

For safety reasons the 4g nats would have to be restricted to forced induction or N/A w/dynosheets to prove they have competitive racepace. Otherwise it would simply be too hard to place the vehicles in a grouping for time trials.

All cars must produce a timed lap of a track weather it be the track you hold it at or other track groupings can be set this way this way all groupings will be around 3-5sec's faster or slower than each other this is the only safe way to have all different classes of cars grouped, not hard just takes time to work out averages.
A rookie class to be added with those with little on decide they would be better off in that class.

Calder/Winton 96 Db at the same distance due to local council regulations. Many of the vehicles in this community are 89-95 Db at 5 metres

Picking a track would be one with exhaust regs of 96db mark end of story

I'm budgetting around 20k to put on a two day event before incidentals.

That includes the ambo's insurance, safety officer.

Then we need volunteers to be flag marshalls (people who aren't racing/dead cars), pit officers, scruitineers (hoping to get a couple of mechanics/very knowledgeable tuners in for this one), event marshalls etc.

Assuming we follow around evonats pricing of ~$300 a car, that's 67 vehicles at breakeven. or 70 vehicles. 7 groups, 30 minutes a group, 2 days, etc. Plenty of track time, I think everyone would be happy with that?

I like you enthusiasm But I would be focusing on the first day to be a Saturday track day

Having minor sponsors involved to either help sponsor the event with either Moneys, prizes, trophies ect will be all the trimmings that make the event as success.

Groupings can also be put together with the aid of modification groupings & their times
to finalise what grup they are in.

Saturday Night drinks and presentation and the Sunday a cruise/show&shine something low key also puts social side together IF you want to cram everything in You will find after 1 day of racing and presentation your cacked out as we have all seen in the first couple Nats. Plus after drinks on sat night you need something cruizy the next day

Working up to a fuller event is how it will work and its pulled off successfully
eg. start small and grow in stages year after year ect.

I'm budgeting around 20k to put on a two day event before incidentals.

That includes the ambo's insurance, safety officer.

Then we need volunteers to be flag marshalls (people who aren't racing/dead cars), pit officers, scruitineers (hoping to get a couple of mechanics/very knowledgeable tuners in for this one), event marshalls, someone's missus manning the bbq (VERY IMPORTANT!!!!), etc.

Again keep it simple first off as you dont want to bite off more than you can chew.

A Friday & Saturday racing is going over board IMHO

To be able to sign in on the Friday afternoon/night and have a social drink somewhere for those that want to would be ideal.

Saturday Morning: Track gates opens early every one signs in to the track and get their numbers ect (if not done on the friday arvo night early bird registration.

Drivers briefing mandatory for all drivers.

Followed by 1 *Open practice session (*A No hero's practice session)
combining maybe the two lowest groups first, then 2nd 2 groups ect. combining the practice sessions will give everyone a chance to just get a feel for the track.

Then timed sessions in individual groupings for the remainder of the the day.

Rookies first followed by the next fastest group 2nd ect.

A large part of race prep is the responsibility of the entrant also.

Their would be guideline threads as what to do to prep you car leading up to the event to assist the newer ones entering.

You wont need specialise mechanics present due to the participants will know their own cars and collectively will hold our own in that regard.

This is what has advantages in putting on an event like this a large proportion will have Build and not bought their rides lol


I'm more than willing to help any way I can, and stoked at the momentum & direction of this thread/event

So lets all keep this momentum going and pull off the 1st event.



Come On
4GNats

[Liberoz]

from my personal view i would pay 100-150 to be part of the events day
track work not really my thing and i couldnt be fucked setting the car up with semi comps alignments etc.. so i guess im that minority that isnt really interested in the track day...

and in regards to the 200 4gs there are plenty of melbourne clubs with plenty of 4gs.. wouldn't be that hard to get over 100 cars and upwards of 200.

lets be real.. ull get more cars at the 'events day' then you will at the track day.. and obviously you will make up the numbers during the events day...

Jon

Once again we all know this isnt you way of making a club work so maybe just leave all of us to do a track day and you can organise your OWN drag day

This event should be a learning curve for all that get involved its mostly about useing your street car in a club event to have fun for those that dont get serious about car set up is completely up to them

There will always be those with more experience & those running in the lower classes(groupings) with little but a completely street driven set up with new brake fluids and a set of front race pads at a minimum that's all they should need for a track rookie.

Jon we all know its not your thing so either give this thread some positive momentum or simply and plainly piss off.

Edited by Liberoz, 06 January 2010 - 02:22 PM.

[Entaran]

Whoa, Ok enough with the stabs at eachother.

Jon, we've talked on MSN. I know what you're thinking.

Ziad, thankyou. Food for thought is always great. I am looking closely at haunted hills as a first event, I simply EOI'ed calder to get the ball rolling.

Has anyone here DRIVEN haunted hills? I have heard varied reports about the track being somewhat dangerous as there is little to no runoffs. How smooth is the surface, really bumpy tracks won't make anyone a happy panda. I've not been over towards Moe since I was about 5 so I'm not an authority on this.


A big day at calder is obviously the goal. Yes, Winton is a more technical "fun" track, but Calder is a better location and generally better facilities. Winton very much as a "wakefield" feel, in that it's like a forgotten little brother. Also broken cars won't cost $500 to return to Melbourne, but it is a lot closer for New South Welshmen.

Liberoz - We're going to be talking via PM quite a bit in the near future mate

marine - travel reimbursement is an interesting concept for us to think about. Even if it is just a token gesture really.

[Entaran]

Haunted hills has the added bonus of being a Hillclimb track, so the cars go on one at a time for a flying lap then come off again.

That's also an issue with the guys who want to get revved up and do 2-4.

Groupings are something that I and the others (whoever volunteers to help??) will need to discuss at length. I'm not going to lie, the #1 biggest hurdle for us to cross is to get reliable people helping with the project.

[Gooch]

In all honesty folks,

Whilst Easter is do-able I think next easter would be more do-able.

Give yourself some time, this year should be chasing sponsors with a good plan laid out for them to organise their funding for next year. Approach anyone now in Q3/4 and I would suggest unless you have the whole event paid for up front and need nothing you will get a flat no!
Approach them now so they can set their budgets for next year you could be on a winner!

First job would be to set up the committee I see Entrant has put a lot of effort in so there is one is there anyone else you would need about 5!

There seems to be a lot of people who have parts in setting up stuff already and head their warning of starting small. We are all green to this!

Is Phillip Island out of the question as well???

[Gooch]

If you want Big you can go big I have a mate that is on the organising committee for the SummerNats and organises other nationals right around the world.

He can assist but it will cost you and cost you Lots! but if you want to go big he can help. You may be able to for a first time come out with a minor loss with a plan to come out in-front in 3-5 years.

[SIVART]

you need to do some votes for

places and times

[Evo-00x]

How about not getting ahead of ourselves and just concentrate on a small single day event first, then go from there if its viable. Someone already mentioned you have to learn how to crawl before you can walk/run.

Just a question, if an event should be organised and held, will there be two classes? i.e. street-registered and purpose built? or would everybody be thrown in the mix together?

Just spit-balling here and Id like to see a State of Origin trophey put in the mix if there's a circuit event - where the top cars from each state get to battle it out for the ultimate prize This ensures no slower cars are on the track at the time and promotes the spirit of competition and state pride, something everybody can have fun giving eachother shit about. Yes Scott (Marinetowing) you get to race for Tassie and you'll cop the brunt of it lol TIC

[Entaran]

That's a great idea EVO

And I haven't even given thought to how to go about classifying cars, but I suppose it would be something similar to the evonats. No point reinventing the wheel right?

Still looking for thoughts on haunted hills...

[Liberoz]

That's a great idea EVO

And I haven't even given thought to how to go about classifying cars, but I suppose it would be something similar to the evonats. No point reinventing the wheel right?

Still looking for thoughts on haunted hills...

Bingo spot on learn by others that have been before you will definitely help stream line the event.
E'Nats is classed by modification points system and them grouped by times
so you can have a highly modified car in the same group as someone with a stockish car that can drive well and their times are about the same so different classes do run in the same groupings

Haunted Hills
bring it on, thats a hill climb I've always wanted to do in the Lib its a great track (safe) for noobs too as it has plenty of run off and no nasty concrete barricades


check it out more pic's & a In car Video here
http://www.vhrr.com/...ills/index.html

Its not in Vic but there is also Marulan Driving Training Centre just out of Goulburn which would be perfect for a smaller event and they are a very friendly bunch of owner/operators, its where we do all of our R&D & Event prep in the 3 race cars I look after.
for more info check out their web site here http://www.mdtc.com.au/

Something like this in Victoria would be a great place to have a 1st off event of this nature on a smallish scale.

[marinetowing]

^^^^ I soooo would love to run my car on that track

[p3akin]

yeah john, i reckon thats a very good point. we need to find a track that has less concrete barriers etc for inexperienced drivers like me and im sure many others on here that havent been to a track before and are scared by the fact that a slight mistake can cost em alot.

haunted hill looks awesome.

[ziad]

u cannot have 200-300 people for one track day and expect them to pay $150, if u do then u will be the laughing stock of T4G. on a track like winton u are looking at 60-70 as the max number, maybe sandown and PI can run 80+. but then you are either squeezing too many people on the track or cutting down on the runs each group gets. and remember if u have an incident it takes 15-30mins to clear the track. people will be mightly pissed if they paid good money to travel and entry fee and only got 2 runs.

haunted hills is very good. u cannot imagine the actual feel of the track by just looking at pictures or even youtube videos. just the change in elevation. anyway run offs basically apart from the ohh shit corner most people who are "sane" and not "wana be shuemachers" will be fine. i am not an expert driver. the surface is very smooth as its only 1 year old track.

calder i dont know its basically two straights and a couple of 90degree turns, and most time i hear about calder, its someone crashed into the wall. also the last time i heard and was there the surface wasnt too smooth, and it most probably has gotten worse. plus u might find the fees there the most expensive (similar to PI) this will increase the cost to u and competitors.

Winton like wakefield is the forgotten brother but is lots better tack than wakefield. plus the runoff there is very good, lots better than sandown and calder. the chance of someone hitting the walls is very low. only two spots really.

if any1 needs any more help i am willing to give any advice i can.... but i have decided not to do any organising type stuff for anyone.

[olly]

I'm with rob,

Why don't we try to plan just a single track day like EXE, OTR and other clubs/forums. Not only does it help us get a rough idea on interest but it also gives us guys experience in hosting such an event?

[JSTYLE]

ziad i dont think you understood my suggestion:

3 events would run simultaneously on 3 seperate parts of the track as each of the 3 events is different to each other. So in theory yes you could have 60-100 cars on the track at one time, obviously most will be lining up waiting for their turn. Only 3 cars would run at any given time! (on 3 seperate parts of the track). Each of the events would take a maximum of 60 seconds to complete! obviously if you have any break downs then theres lost time.

Thats how easternats ran their events and they had well over 600 cars entered! Easternats charged from memory $100 a day over 3 days ~$300

Jon

[WRCVR4]

Will this be open to 6g's as well ?
6G's need a place as well

I'm picking up my 6G on Saturday in Sydney