15 replies to this topic

[JETGSR]

OK have just put my car back together and fitted the preped gearbox!

just had an evil thought? I have 3.5 diff gears in the modified EVO 2 box with an EVO 3 centre diff and 3.5 rear diff gears
have also used E3 5th gear as it gives me 260kph @ 6800rpm

my problem is which transfer do I use? I have (going off Jacks Transmissions you tube vids) an early and a late transfer case. 2G and 1G

the 3.5 diff is from the aussie lancer GSR the centre is from the (what was E3 3.9 box) Aparently you run the difference transfer for the E3 from the E2
I cannot remember which one was out of the E2 half cut and which one from the GSR

As I said what do I fit ? late TFC or early TFC
and does the centre diff make the difference for the TFC or is it the 3.5 diff gears?

I need to fit this tomorrow!

Please help there are too many options VR4, facelift, pre facelift, E 123, DSM, early, late 1.09, 1.07 shit I'm getting confused!

[DOUGMO]

with the 3.5 front diff you need the gsr or evo 2 transfer, not the evo 3 one.

[GSRWRC]

GSR or Evo I/II

Evo IIIs had a slightly different primary reduction form memory, which required the different transfer ratio. (Has nothing to do with diff ratio, GSR and Evo I/II transfers are 100% interchangeable). Evo III transfers are weak too, alloy casing rather than steel like the GSR and Evo I/II.

One of the few things that spoil the munter "It's Evo THREE so MUST be best" mentality.

Edited by GSRWRC, 07 August 2010 - 10:10 AM.

[JETGSR]

yes but which TFC is GSR as I have both, but I'm not sure which one is which? (I dont have an EVO 3 TFC - or do i?)
I know they are different and both are alloy front and steel rear but why would I have 2 different ones?

I have the original one from the Aussie GSR lancer 1994
and the one that came with the EVO 2 half cut. 1994

Now going by what everyone says, the 1/2 cut was probably the wrong transfer supplied "Thanks ROLIN IMP" because the E2 and GSR are surposed to be the same.

Like I said before - jacks transmissions indicates I have one late model and one early model TFC

(thats doing the turn the input shaft 14 / 12 times and the marks line up test)

So using the EVO 3 center diff will make no difference?

[JETGSR]

Ok from what I can work out the GSR 1.09 TFC would be the early 1G ratio
and the other TFC (thinking it is now E3) is the 1.074 or late model TFC

I guess I'm confused because the 1/2 cut was an EVO 2 cut but looks like it came with a E3 or some other transfer as they should of been the same!

correct me if i'm wrong!
PLEASE!

[Rockabilly]

Ok from what I can work out the GSR 1.09 TFC would be the early 1G ratio
and the other TFC (thinking it is now E3) is the 1.074 or late model TFC

I guess I'm confused because the 1/2 cut was an EVO 2 cut but looks like it came with a E3 or some other transfer as they should of been the same!

correct me if i'm wrong!
PLEASE!

If you wanna make sure nobody has swaped the gearing, unbolt the front section to count the teeth.
1.0909* is 24/22 teeth
1.074 is 29/27 teeth
Cheers !

[Evo-00x]

Troy, count the number of teeth inside the transfer case as its the only way to tell - see Aldo's (Rockabilly) post above.
Even though some transfer cases might not look the same between GSR and EVO I/II models, they are still 1.09 ratio which is what you need.
Dont go by 'early or late model DSM' jargon as it'll fuk you up and adds room for error.
Count the teeth and have piece of mind

[JETGSR]

yes i dismantled it today and counted teeth 24/22 so it is the 1.09 TFC

which basically means the 1/2 cut I got which was an E2 had an E3 TFC supplied with it!
I havent pulled the other one down yet but it is different ratios!

so what makes the E3 box require the 1.074 TFC? and do you still need the 1.074 if you fit the 3.5 LSD's front and rear like I have into the E3 box?

[GSRWRC]

yes i dismantled it today and counted teeth 24/22 so it is the 1.09 TFC

which basically means the 1/2 cut I got which was an E2 had an E3 TFC supplied with it!
I havent pulled the other one down yet but it is different ratios!

so what makes the E3 box require the 1.074 TFC? and do you still need the 1.074 if you fit the 3.5 LSD's front and rear like I have into the E3 box?

The Evo III has a different front diff ratio to the Evo I/II. To keep it inline with the same 3.909:1 rear diff ratio it also uses a different primary reduction and transfercase. Replacing the Diff, crownwheel and front output shaft with the corresponding GSR items should see it all match the 1.09 transfer and 3.545:1 rear diff.

[Evo-00x]

Troy, you should know this from our special gearbox discussions lol
No, if you counted 24/22 in the transfer case its a 1.09 transfer case from a GSR/EVOI/II.

EVO I/II Front Diff Ratio (inside gearbox) = 64 tooth front diff crownwheel + 15 tooth output pinion = 64/15 = 4.266
Transfer case ratio = 24/22 teeth = 1.09
Rear diff ratio = 4.266 divided by 1.09 = 3.91 (all EVO I-III rear diff ratio)

EVO III Front Diff Ratio (inside gearbox) = 63 tooth front diff crownwheel + 15 tooth output pinion = 63/15 = 4.200
Transfer case ratio = 29/27 teeth = 1.074
Rear diff ratio = 4.200 divided by 1.074 = 3.91 (all EVO I-III rear diff ratio)
Because the EVO III has a different front dfiff ratio (63/15) it needs to correct it with a 1.074 transfer case to suit a 3.91 rear diff ratio.

As you are using a GSR 58 tooth front diff crownwheel + 15 tooth output pinion = 58/15 = 3.866 (fitted inside your EVO 2 box)
Transfer case ratio = 24/22 teeth = 1.09
Rear diff ratio = 3.866 divided by 1.09 = 3.54 (GSR rear diff ratio)

That's as simple as I can explain it, should be easy to follow

[JETGSR]

yeah pretty much - thats it

the thing that I was getting confused with was why the hell I was supplied a 1.074 TFC with my E2 half cut?

so what do i do with this other transfer case? I guess I could sell it with the E3 box and rear diff I have in my shed

Maybe the Asian dude that owned the car in Japan - was an idiot and fitted it to the car
then the importers - not knowing anything about E3 - E2 transfer cases just sold it to me.

or when they had to fix the motor 3 times because it was crap (under warranty) they just fitted what ever was laying around.

God knows and he aint tellin!

but it is all sorted - preped box all fitted - motor all new fitted
a transfer case that is correct - all fitted.
nice big twin plate clutch - all fitted

cant wait to get back out to lakeside!

[Rockabilly]

EVO I/II Front Diff Ratio (inside gearbox) = 64 tooth front diff crownwheel + 15 tooth output pinion = 64/15 = 4.266
Transfer case ratio = 24/22 teeth = 1.09
Rear diff ratio = 4.266 divided by 1.09 = 3.91 (all EVO I-III rear diff ratio)

Rob I'll add another equasion in here for you ok
The Primary gear tooth count for that box is 37/29 which is 1.275
Now multiply the primary 1.275 with the secondary 4.267 (front diff) to give you the Final Drive = 5.441 at front axles.
The 5.441 is what you should've entered into your calcs for speed per gear !
The probs with using a welded centre diff is that the rear diff is underdriving compared to the front axles.
Front diff divided by the transfer case = 3.91111111* - But the rear diff = 3.9090909*
This is why I use 8.1mm more rear tyre circ to keep up with the front tyres with a welded centre diff.
It is all numbers from using a calculator, but how I worked out the 8mm more rear tyre circ was by puting my car on
the hoist (with lsd both ends) & marked 6 o'clock under a front & rear tyre. I turned a front wheel 10x & the rear
tyre mark was 80mm short of reaching 6 o'clock = 8mm short per each turn of keeping up with the front tyres.
VR4 = F 215x45x17 & R 245x40x17.....RVR = F 215x45x18 & R 245x40x18...My method of madness explained.
Cheers !

[BMGTZ]

Rob I'll add another equasion in here for you ok
The Primary gear tooth count for that box is 37/29 which is 1.275
Now multiply the primary 1.275 with the secondary 4.267 (front diff) to give you the Final Drive = 5.441 at front axles.
The 5.441 is what you should've entered into your calcs for speed per gear !
The probs with using a welded centre diff is that the rear diff is underdriving compared to the front axles.
Front diff divided by the transfer case = 3.91111111* - But the rear diff = 3.9090909*
This is why I use 8.1mm more rear tyre circ to keep up with the front tyres with a welded centre diff.
It is all numbers from using a calculator, but how I worked out the 8mm more rear tyre circ was by puting my car on
the hoist (with lsd both ends) & marked 6 o'clock under a front & rear tyre. I turned a front wheel 10x & the rear
tyre mark was 80mm short of reaching 6 o'clock = 8mm short per each turn of keeping up with the front tyres.
VR4 = F 215x45x17 & R 245x40x17.....RVR = F 215x45x18 & R 245x40x18...My method of madness explained.
Cheers !

enter the viscous coupling......wont that absorb that difference

[Rockabilly]

Currently it is absorbing it & has no probs with a std viscous coupling..I don't recomend this much overdriven stagger tho.
4mm less rear tyre circ to underdrive the rear by more is a good thing for reducing understeer. No viscous probs.
I'm swaping over to the welded centre diff on Wednesday.
Cheers !

[BMGTZ]

Currently it is absorbing it & has no probs with a std viscous coupling..I don't recomend this much overdriven stagger tho.
4mm less rear tyre circ to underdrive the rear by more is a good thing for reducing understeer. No viscous probs.
I'm swaping over to the welded centre diff on Wednesday.
Cheers !

I am not nit picking but in the differences you note above.....have you corner weighed the car? doing a revolution check such as you have without the wheels on the ground assumes equal corner weight and tyre load....thus side wall deflection. More accurate is to set your tyre pressures mark the distance traveled with the car on the ground and then measure that distance.

Edited by BMGTZ, 09 August 2010 - 11:57 AM.

[Rockabilly]

I am not nit picking but in the differences you note above.....have you corner weighed the car? doing a revolution check such as you have without the wheels on the ground assumes equal corner weight and tyre load....thus side wall deflection. More accurate is to set your tyre pressures mark the distance traveled with the car on the ground and then measure that distance.

I'll PM to you instead of continuing to be off the thread subject.
Cheers !