39 replies to this topic

[3zercrowd]

The feelings of our members in the good old state of SA seem to be copping a pounding of late!
Defect, parting out cars and painful inspection processes.

What im feeling is that for most of us we spend a bucket load of money of our cars doing them up, and most of the time its for the best and the mods that we do, actually improve the handling and stopping power.
When a member gets defected it dampens the spirits of the forum and indeed that member.
I feel that most of them come from either SA, VIC and sometimes NSW.
The question is this. How come we can spend so much on doing up our cars, but cant spend the extra amount on getting that piece of paper and having them engineered? The price of the engineer/engineering the car has to be comparitable (is that a word? lol) to say doing an engine overhaul to prolong its life, or throwing on a $2000 rims and tyres package to look good. Why cant we spend that money on getting that car engineered to at least TRY to comply to their standards and shove it up them (the engineer report/papers etc..) when we get pulled over by the over zealous coppers?

Whats so difficult about these above mentioned states that it cant be done?

Lets get some thoughts and Ideas out there in the open so we can make a concious move to throw it back at them.

Peace

[jase]

Whats so difficult about these above mentioned states that it cant be done?

In SA it counts for jack shit.

Copper pulls you over, you show him the paper, he says "I don't know what that means, I'm sending you down to Regency Park for an inspection just to be on the safe side" and off you go. Even in the best case scenario where you go down to Regency, have the defect lifted immediately because the car is engineered, you will still likely lose demerit points for "Breach of ADR's", and receive a fine for each individual breach (or suspected breach!), then you have the inspection you will have to pay for as well.

Essentially, you're financially better off taking the risk. The best way to modify a car in SA (in my personal opinion), is to do what you like, but keep it all "bolt on", or looking as standard as possible. Keep all of the stock gear, and when defected, swap it all back on. Get the defect off, and swap it all back over.

With that said, I don't know if the muscle car scene has the same problem. They've been modifying for years, and I think many of the coppers have a bit of a soft spot for them. They aren't seen as "hoons", while the import owners are.

[265T]

i've found the best way to avoid being defected is to not draw attention to yourself & Jase is right, make all your mods easily reversable

my vr4 is on race/rally rego, i was told by a friend who is a cop & in the rally scene that it cant be defected

[boostboy76]

I think that's BS unfortunately, any road registered car that drives on public roads can be defected.

+1 to jase's comment. The police over here know jack-shit about cars, they're certainly not going to know anything about engineering certification and ADR compliance.

All they have to do is have "reasonable suspicion" that a car is unsafe, even if you have engineering certificates up the wahzoo, and it's off to Regency you go.

Unless you're a bikie or a Falcadore owner that is!

I hear Harleys and V8's that must be puting out 130db just idling down a side street and Cops never give them a second glance!

However, just sit what they consider a "teenagers" car i.e. 4-Cylinder/Rotary and their all over you!

Typical Bullies. They like picking on people who they know can't fight back, 'cos it makes them feel big. Don't want to pick on a bikie in case he smashes them!

[Velocity Racing]

haha Paul unfortunatly they can still defect it....but.. CAMS along with transport SA can have the defect removed with out need for an inspection.....

SA is one of the only states that has that dedicated rally car scheme, and works pretty closley with transport SA.. but its not a quick fix and its definatlt not for street cars.. the dedicated scheme is there for a reason and now to get approved for the dedicated scheme the car needs to be approved as a genuine rally car... Paul is one of the very rare lucky ones that has flown under the radar a little

[Gianni]

I'll need to do an engineers cert soon. Do u notify vic roads first then go get the cert. Or get the cert and then let vic roads know. I'm worried what if it fails engineer. Has anyone had one not had a car pass engineer. If so what happens then and for what reason. I've never done it before

[shadow]

I've been wondering the same thing as Gianni. Moving up to townsville shortly, and once I find someone up there to repair the roof rust, I want to look into this.

[SIVART]

i've found the best way to avoid being defected is to not draw attention to yourself & Jase is right, make all your mods easily reversable

my vr4 is on race/rally rego, i was told by a friend who is a cop & in the rally scene that it cant be defected

this is interesting , in Vic one of my Friends with a Rally reg on a LA Lancer did get defect while driving it to work one morning , he was on the P-plates at time also

I think police should have to sit a roadworthy licence test and pass before they can issue a defect ,

most mechanic's do 4 years to become qualified and then have to pass the roadworthy licence test to even be able to do a roadworthy check

[jase]

i've found the best way to avoid being defected is to not draw attention to yourself & Jase is right, make all your mods easily reversable

my vr4 is on race/rally rego, i was told by a friend who is a cop & in the rally scene that it cant be defected

I think you'd be pretty unlucky to get it defected, but technically they can still get you. Do you have the special race/rally plate on the car? If not, how would they know? (don't worry, I know it works in your favor not having it if you don't, lol)

Realistically this is why I think SA people would be more inclined to go out and buy an Evo 6-9. I know that was my main motivation to have a 7. Super fast, handled great, good seats and massive brakes, 100% standard.

My old shitbox Corolla was a cop magnet, and I somehow went 3 months without getting a defect. Trust me, there were numerous times where it was going to happen, but thanks to some "situational awareness" I managed to avoid it. If you're driving with friends and not paying attention to the cops around you, you'll get done quick smart, regardless if you're doing anything wrong.

[SIVART]

I'm trying to remember , but I still even think it was on a club rego , I did ask him about it last night and he drove to Vic roads the next day and they ripped off the defect and where laughing about it , they said the police have been wasting alot of there time with this sort of stuff

I think its the time you drive also , if your out driving around after 8:30pm in Vic you're more likely to get pinged , than if you drive to work the home , if you always take the major roads also your probably going to get spotted alot faster

[Gianni]

What about getting the engineers report ect as above

[evopwr]

whats the point. just keep all your stock parts and do a switch-a-roo when/if you get dicked

[UDLOOZ]

I've been wondering the same thing as Gianni. Moving up to townsville shortly, and once I find someone up there to repair the roof rust, I want to look into this.

I can probably help you out mate i know a few people in the industry that are easy to deal with..

I do feel sorry for you fellas down there it sounds bullshit, up this way it seriously isnt that bad ive been sent over the pits once and that was in my mini truck when they defected my big rims due to not being load rated but apparently they were having a blitz so eh..
Ive been pulled over several times in my car and never really gone over it.. Mind you i dont drive stupid and the car doesnt get used for day to day use.

I dont go out on thursday nights and i dont cut laps with the fools that chuck skids at every set of lights.. Ive only just got my car blue plated after 2 years of rank mods and i do somewhat feel a little safer as i think once they see the blue plate they might think atleast ive tried to do the right thing haha

[Evo-00x]

Knowing a fair bit about the ADR's and NSW rules, working in the Roads & Traffic Authority and familiarising myself with the docs, having undergone engineering on my personal car over a 9 month period as well as assist an Engineer with certifying friend's cars, I felt that I should put my 2 cents worth in too

Regardless whether Constable Hightower reckons something is legit or not, if its OK according to the ADR's or signed off by an engineering signatory as OK, then the Police havent got anything to stand on unless you've got a dodgey engineer, or changed something after your certification thats blantantly obvious for the officer to point at. An engineer will stand by his decision and will assist in any shape or form to clear his name if the Police are associating it with mud. Afterall, an engineer's livelihood relies on his standing within his state's motoring authority.

Knowledge is power - Any modifications not covered under the 'owner certified' umbrella are deemed illegal. Read that sentence again... that is, UNLESS certified by an engineering signatory recognised by your state's motoring authority. SA's motoring authority will have something written in their documentation that will state something like this. Use what is written in black and white to your advantage and you will be OK provided you play by the rules. To 'play by the rules' you have to go through the engineering process and emissions testing. If you deviated and did something wrong you just gotta cop it sweet on the chin. BUT if you know what you have done is legit and the engineer and motoring authority backs you up on it, then fight back!

Stand Up for what's right - If you wrongfully get defected and/or fined, keep record of it and make a complaint to the infringement processing bureau in your state and demand a refund. Provide photographs of your car on the side of the road at the time you were pulled over by the police. Take photos of the police car and officer (if he lets you) with your car in the picture. Take photos of your car where issues have been identified as non compliant THEN & THERE. Take record of what the officer is saying in a logbook as he says it. Take the officer's badge number, name and station details and if you have an allibi in the car with you get them to sign and witness your logbook in front of a JP as a true account of what happened. Precise succinct details, dont assume anything. Factual points only.

If you're not prepared to pull out a logbook and take notes and photos then forget about ever chasing it up afterwards and you might as well accept defeat. However, get some balls and let the officer know that he is incorrect and that you are taking an account of what he is saying and taking photographs of the issues he has identified, and that you are building a case to have his defect overturned. Dont fight it, let him do his thing and be reasonable. He may realise by this time that his head is in the chopping block and may release you with a warning. If he follows through with it, he will have it in the back of his head that someone is going to fight his decision and that he will have to answer to some scrutiny later. The more officers get away with shit without being questioned, the more they think that they are untouchable and feel that they can take the law into their own hands so to speak. It's a power trip. If they get cocky and say that they are going to search your car, ask the question "what reasonable grounds do you have to search my vehicle sir?" and take note of his answer because he will need to explain his actions later.

Prepare your case - Take a copy of the defect report you receive and a copy of the clearance report once cleared after inspection and put them together with your photos and account of events. See your engineer and have your engineer provide his professional opinion in a written statement on letterhead. Build a case against being wrongfully defected according to the ADR's and Engineer certification report and go from there. Basically bitching and moaning about it isnt going to help anybody nor change the way the SA Police do their business. But when people start to fight back and questions are being raised, iit holds them accountable to provide a response. Only ever follow it through if you know 100% you are in the right and have been unfairly fined. If you get no loving in the form of a reimbursement for their travesty for the cost of the defect notice and engineering statement, take it to your local Member of Parliament. The way that Govt organisations work these days, including the Police force, is that once things go politcal they become a higher priority to action and the officer who pulled you over would be involved in the repsonse. Whatever happens from here is a roll of the dice, but at least you did something about it and have kept record of the events. If you can afford an attorney, then by all means provide the information to your attorney and let them deal with it. The more times you get wrongfully pulled over and defected, the more evidence you have to build a case against harassment. Its your civil right to be able to drive down the road without being singled out by the police!

Be smart, be prepared to do some homework, record keeping and build a case based on fact. Fight the cause and stand up for what you believe in. If you have illegal mods and no engineer cert, then you're setting yourself up for failure to begin with.

[iluszn]

The Best way to keep your car on the road and defect free is, To keep your modifications witihin the ADR rules.

ie;
You can fit a pod filter OR upgrade your Front mount, not both
Keep your car under bonnet looking simple and clean, not blinged out wiht a turbo bigger than your motor.
If you have a blow off vavle, recirc it as I dont think you can vent it on a airflow metered car, but, you can on a map sensed car.
If your car looks like its modified. Well, your asking for trouble.

Research your modifications, read your local laws regarding Compliance/ADR. (I posted up Victoria's rules in Vic state thread for RWC and car modifications)

I can not stress the research statement most important, making modifications while being informed is the utmost best way to keep you out of trouble. If you base your mods on documentation from your RTA and ADR's then the police will have a hard time arguing with you when you are them what is ilegal about a modification that complies to ADR/RTA rules.

[Gianni]

I can probably help you out mate i know a few people in the industry that are easy to deal with..

I do feel sorry for you fellas down there it sounds bullshit, up this way it seriously isnt that bad ive been sent over the pits once and that was in my mini truck when they defected my big rims due to not being load rated but apparently they were having a blitz so eh..
Ive been pulled over several times in my car and never really gone over it.. Mind you i dont drive stupid and the car doesnt get used for day to day use.

I dont go out on thursday nights and i dont cut laps with the fools that chuck skids at every set of lights.. Ive only just got my car blue plated after 2 years of rank mods and i do somewhat feel a little safer as i think once they see the blue plate they might think atleast ive tried to do the right thing haha

Do u know people down in Melbs I'm about to do sex and put 63t in my car so will need that engineered

[evopwr]

Gianni you don't need an engineers certificate if you're putting in a 63t in your cc coupe. Just need to get the engine registered at Vicroads.

[boostboy76]

Regardless whether Constable Hightower reckons something is legit or not, if its OK according to the ADR's or signed off by an engineering signatory as OK, then the Police havent got anything to stand on unless you've got a dodgey engineer, or changed something after your certification thats blantantly obvious for the officer to point at.

That's all well and good from an engineering mod perspective, but it still won't stop a Police Officer stating in his opinion that he has reasonable grounds to believe the modofication is unsafe and send you off to Regency.

Engineering certificates mean nothing when it comes down to a Police officer's legal right to send you off to to the pits if they feel something needs to be checked out, regardless of whether it has an engineering certificate or not.

That's the whole problem with the system.

It's like being fined $200 everytime you encounter a Police officer who knows nothing about cars.

Once it's there, they will go over the car with a fine tooth comb and can deny clearance of the original defect notice (or even issue a second one!) by finding any other issues with the vehicle, not just the issue the car was originally defected for.

That's what happened to me. The police got the minimum ride height for my CC GSR completely wrong (they were out by 20mm), and off to Regency I went.

Because I KNEW they'd go over the car with a magnifying glass, I had to change EVERYTHING back to stock (Rims, springs, etc) just to get it through, even though they admitted the Police officer had made a mistake.

Even though my car got through Regency first time (a minor miracle in itself) the whole exercise cost me over $1500.

That's exactly how they want it to be. They want to make it so much of a hassle, financially, mentally, etc, etc, that people like us just give up and sell our "Old" cars and all buy white, automatic Camrys, and fit in with all of the other drones.

Edited by boostboy76, 16 December 2010 - 10:49 PM.

[Jonson]

Your car got through cos I knew what they would and wouldn't look at. It is a miracle it went through with a fibreglass front end lol.

[Gianni]

Gianni you don't need an engineers certificate if you're putting in a 63t in your cc coupe. Just need to get the engine registered at Vicroads.

Are u sure. I do have an Na 4g63 in it. I thought in vic u could put a 1.8 93 in Coz the car car came with a 1.8 in a better model. But Coz the 4g63 is a 2L it needs to be engineered.

If what u say is true I'd love to have it confirmed.