10 replies to this topic

[Hypo]

Are the evo 1,2,3 gsr gearbox ratios all the same and interchangeable between all models?

[EV0300]

Are the evo 1,2,3 gsr gearbox ratios all the same and interchangeable between all models?

i think the 3 is slightly different than the 1 and 2 but not 100%

[Evo-00x]

To answer your question... yes and no. Its a question that cant be answered without knowing what gear ratios you want to change and use on what shafts and setup.

There are some things one box may have by itself, and other things it may share with others. There are some parts and input shaft that only suit EVO 1 gearbox, and others for EVO 2/3. There are some hubs and shift forks and shift rails that only suit one particular gearbox and not another. EVO 1 also came with alloy shift forks as well as cast ones! EVO 3 came out with solid cast forks and also nylon padded forks. There's also the different single and double synchro setups, front diff gears and speedo gears. There's a lot more to it than what people think and it takes experience to know what works with what as many things arent written down for reference.
It is possible to make a hybrid EVO 1/2/3 gearbox if you know what ratios you want, but you would have to know what parts work together and what you are doing - experience with these boxes counts for a lot, especially if you throw GSR transmissions in the mix! . It could also involve, depending on your desired setup, tearing down two, three or four gearboxes to get the result you're after

Here's just a quick reference of the gearings etc to see the numbers side of things...

EVO I CD9A:
GEAR RATIOS:
1st - 14/36 = 2.571
2nd – 20/32 = 1.600
3rd - 25/29 = 1.160
4th - 29/25 = 0.862
5th - 34/21 = 0.617
GEARBOX CODES:
WQGE-GSR no LSD
WQWE-GSR with viscous front LSD
WQYE-RS no LSD
WQFE-RS with viscous front LSD
EVO I Front Diff Crownwheel = 64 teeth
EVO I output shaft = 15 teeth
Front Diff Ratio = 64/15 = 4.266
Transfer ratio = 1.09
Rear diff ratio = 3909

EVO II-III CE9A: (EVO III has slightly different transfer and front diff ratio)
GEAR RATIOS:
1st - 12/33 = 2.750
2nd – 19/32 = 1.684
3rd - 25/29 = 1.160
4th - 29/25 = 0.862
5th - 34/21 = 0.617

GEARBOX CODES EVO II
WPGE-GSR no LSD
WPWE-GSR with viscous front LSD
WPYE-RS no LSD
WPFE-RS with viscous front LSD
EVO II Front Diff Crownwheel = 64 teeth
EVO II output shaft = 15 teeth
EVO II Front Diff Ratio = 64/15 = 4.266
EVO II Transfer ratio = 1.09
Rear diff ratio: 3.909

GEARBOX CODES EVO III
UPGE-GSR no LSD
UPWE-GSR with viscous front LSD
UPYE-RS no LSD
UPFE-RS with viscous front LSD
EVO III Front Diff Crownwheel = 63 teeth
EVO III output shaft = 15 teeth
EVO III Front Diff Ratio = 63/15 = 4.200
EVO III Transfer ratio = 1.074
Rear diff ratio: 3.909

GSR LANCER CD5A:
GEAR RATIOS:
1st – 12/35 = 2.917
2nd – 19/32 = 1.684
3rd – 26/29 = 1.115
4th – 30/25 = 0.833
5th - = 0.666
GEARBOX CODES
NRBE-GSR no LSD
NRWE-GSR with viscous front LSD.
GSR Front Diff Crownwheel = 58 teeth
GSR output shaft = 15 teeth
Front Diff Ratio = 58/15 = 3.866
Transfer ratio = 1.09
Rear diff ratio = 3.545

Edited by EVO-00X, 23 May 2011 - 12:54 AM.

[Hypo]

Thanks

It appears I have snapped my input shaft whilst at eastern creek .

I have a evo ii gsr box and I just want to be able to replace gb without changing the transfer case or rear diff

[Evo-00x]

What gearbox died, an EVO 2 gearbox? Do you have the code number to confirm?
If you have snapped the input shaft from the E2 box you can only use a replacement input shaft from an EVO 2/3 gearbox (CE9A) as the Input shaft in an EVO 1 is different.
If you were going to replace the entire gearbox, you can use a complete EVO 1 or EVO 2 gearbox as a direct replacement whilst still keeping your existing EVO 2 transfer case and rear diff.
Will also depend if its an LSD gearbox or not... so many combinations and mistakes can be made when it comes to gearboxes therefore you need to be pretty specific with knowing exactly what you have before replacing parts/gearbox.

Edited by EVO-00X, 22 May 2011 - 03:13 AM.

[Hypo]

What gearbox died, an EVO 2 gearbox? Do you have the code number to confirm?
If you have snapped the input shaft from the E2 box you can only use a replacement input shaft from an EVO 2/3 gearbox (CE9A) as the Input shaft in an EVO 1 is different.
If you were going to replace the entire gearbox, you can use a complete EVO 1 or EVO 2 gearbox as a direct replacement whilst still keeping your existing EVO 2 transfer case and rear diff.
Will also depend if its an LSD gearbox or not... so many combinations and mistakes can be made when it comes to gearboxes therefore you need to be pretty specific with knowing exactly what you have before replacing parts/gearbox.

It is a EVO II Non LSD gearbox - WPGE-GSR

I have the internals of a EVO III but it appears that I also need the end casing as some part of 5th gear has created a hole.

The gearbox let go after the hair pin in 4th gear at about 160 km/h so I am assuming it is the input shaft.

I had a look at a few threads and it appears I would have to spend close to 7-8k for a performance gearbox so I am happy just to use a normal box again.

As the EVO III and EVO II box both have the same final drive ratio why can't I use a EVO III box with the EVO II Transfer case?

Once the reason above has been provided what would I need to put in the EVO III box from the the EVO II box to make it all work?

Apologies for the short previous posts was in transit from Sydney to Brisbane towing the car.

Thanks for the assistance.

Edited by Hypo, 22 May 2011 - 07:16 AM.

[GSRWRC]

It is a EVO II Non LSD gearbox - WPGE-GSR

I have the internals of a EVO III but it appears that I also need the end casing as some part of 5th gear has created a hole.

The gearbox let go after the hair pin in 4th gear at about 160 km/h so I am assuming it is the input shaft.

I had a look at a few threads and it appears I would have to spend close to 7-8k for a performance gearbox so I am happy just to use a normal box again.

As the EVO III and EVO II box both have the same final drive ratio why can't I use a EVO III box with the EVO II Transfer case?

Once the reason above has been provided what would I need to put in the EVO III box from the the EVO II box to make it all work?

Apologies for the short previous posts was in transit from Sydney to Brisbane towing the car.

Thanks for the assistance.

The Evo III has a different primary reduction in the gearbox which is why it needs an Evo III transfer to match in order use the same rear diff ratio as Evo I/II. EVO-00X will tell ya the different ratios and tooth counts, my memory isn't flash enough

[Evo-00x]

Are you sure 4th gear didnt strip as a result of load on it whilst racing? 4th gear, although strong enough for most applications, is still pretty weak under heavy load and often guys making some good power on dynos or pulling hard out of corners whilst racing will strip teeth off it and break them. If it is only 4th gear itself, you could change it with another 4th gear provided nothing else is damaged as a result. ie 4th gear intermediate shaft, or broken teeth and debris causing damage to other parts for example.

Hey, did you buy that 'alleged' EVO III box on EBay that had a hole blown in the rear end of it about 2 weeks ago? Pickup was at Loganlea? Because I agreed on a price with the owner for it and he was placing it on a skid for me and calling me when it was ready for my courier to pick up. Ive been waiting for his OK ever since Thing is, it isnt an EVO III gearbox at all, its an RVR gearbox. I was going to open it up to check out what's exactly inside it as the code number W5M332MMZL has little known about its internals and I was planning to dissect it to see, compare and document its internals with other W5M33 transmissions Ive worked on . If not, then please disregard this paragraph as Im still waiting for the owner to say come and pick it up

If its not that gearbox, then you cant just fit the EVO III box into your car as GSRWRC mentioned. E3 has a different front diff ratio to the E1/2 and therefore the E3 box needs its own E3 transfer case to go with it so it can suit any of the Evo I-III 3.909 rear diffs. In other words, the E3 gearbox will not suit your E1/E2 transfer case (check the numbers in my previous post showing tooth counts). You can however, remove the front diff and crownwheel (complete unit) plus output pinion from the EVO II box if they are not damaged, and then place them inside the E3 box. You will also benefit from swapping out the speedo gear from the E2 and putting it inside the E3 box. This will make the E3 box = very close to an E2 box using E2 front diff ratio and suitable for a GSR/E1/E2 transfer case.

Now for the holes in the E3 end casing.... thats a bit of a problem depending what is wrong inside it. To be honest, any box that has blown a hole out the rear end case still demands a full teardown and inspection before investing time and money in putting it back into a car. Can you imagine if you only changed an end case and gear and put it in the car only to have loose debris kill the internals. Again, there are minor differences here also. E3 had a different pin position on one of the shift rails, therefore if the E3 5th gear fork broke for example, you can only replace it with another E3 shift fork only. Its a real case of WTF is wrong with what you have, what is salvagable, and can you build one good box out of two dodgey ones before going through the hassle of installing it back into the car.

If in doubt, take it to someone who knows how to rebuild W5M33 transmissions, not just your local mechanic or gearbox repairer because I doubt they will know the subtle differences between all the W5M33 boxes, ratios and combinations.
Up your way you have JETGSR and BRISVR4 (members in this forum) who can probably assist with inspecting and rebuilding a transmission for you.

Edited by EVO-00X, 22 May 2011 - 01:13 PM.

[Hypo]

Are you sure 4th gear didnt strip as a result of load on it whilst racing? 4th gear, although strong enough for most applications, is still pretty weak under heavy load and often guys making some good power on dynos or pulling hard out of corners whilst racing will strip teeth off it and break them. If it is only 4th gear itself, you could change it with another 4th gear provided nothing else is damaged as a result. ie 4th gear intermediate shaft, or broken teeth and debris causing damage to other parts for example.

Hey, did you buy that 'alleged' EVO III box on EBay that had a hole blown in the rear end of it about 2 weeks ago? Pickup was at Loganlea? Because I agreed on a price with the owner for it and he was placing it on a skid for me and calling me when it was ready for my courier to pick up. Ive been waiting for his OK ever since Thing is, it isnt an EVO III gearbox at all, its an RVR gearbox. I was going to open it up to check out what's exactly inside it as the code number W5M332MMZL has little known about its internals and I was planning to dissect it to see, compare and document its internals with other W5M33 transmissions Ive worked on . If not, then please disregard this paragraph as Im still waiting for the owner to say come and pick it up

If its not that gearbox, then you cant just fit the EVO III box into your car as GSRWRC mentioned. E3 has a different front diff ratio to the E1/2 and therefore the E3 box needs its own E3 transfer case to go with it so it can suit any of the Evo I-III 3.909 rear diffs. In other words, the E3 gearbox will not suit your E1/E2 transfer case (check the numbers in my previous post showing tooth counts). You can however, remove the front diff and crownwheel (complete unit) plus output pinion from the EVO II box if they are not damaged, and then place them inside the E3 box. You will also benefit from swapping out the speedo gear from the E2 and putting it inside the E3 box. This will make the E3 box = very close to an E2 box using E2 front diff ratio and suitable for a GSR/E1/E2 transfer case.

Now for the holes in the E3 end casing.... thats a bit of a problem depending what is wrong inside it. To be honest, any box that has blown a hole out the rear end case still demands a full teardown and inspection before investing time and money in putting it back into a car. Can you imagine if you only changed an end case and gear and put it in the car only to have loose debris kill the internals. Again, there are minor differences here also. E3 had a different pin position on one of the shift rails, therefore if the E3 5th gear fork broke for example, you can only replace it with another E3 shift fork only. Its a real case of WTF is wrong with what you have, what is salvagable, and can you build one good box out of two dodgey ones before going through the hassle of installing it back into the car.

If in doubt, take it to someone who knows how to rebuild W5M33 transmissions, not just your local mechanic or gearbox repairer because I doubt they will know the subtle differences between all the W5M33 boxes, ratios and combinations.
Up your way you have JETGSR and BRISVR4 (members in this forum) who can probably assist with inspecting and rebuilding a transmission for you.

Thanks for all of that.

I will taking it to someone to repair I just wanted to know what my options were prior.

From what you are saying if I can get a EVO III Gear Box and Transfer case these will work correctly with the EVO II rear diff.

From the in car video we are power in 4th gear and the car just free revs. No gears were available and he had to pull over on the side of the track. The Evo II gearbox on the car is the one with the hole in the end casing.

No idea about the Logan gearbox.

Thanks for your help.

[Evo-00x]

If, if you can get an E3 transfer case to go with the E3 box, then it'll be fine to use with any E1-3 rear diff.
OR, if you find it difficult to get a hold of an E3 transfer case, then take the front diff crownwheel and output pinion from the E2 box, then put them inside the E3 box, and you can use your existing E2 transfer case.
If you look at the numbers below you can see that the E2 and E3 have different number of teeth on the front diff crownwheels and thats why they have different transfer cases.

EVO II Front Diff Crownwheel = 64 teeth
EVO II output shaft = 15 teeth
EVO II Front Diff Ratio = 64/15 = 4.266
EVO II Transfer ratio = 1.09
Rear diff ratio: 3.909

EVO III Front Diff Crownwheel = 63 teeth
EVO III output shaft = 15 teeth
EVO III Front Diff Ratio = 63/15 = 4.200
EVO III Transfer ratio = 1.074
Rear diff ratio: 3.909

[Evo-00x]

Fark, it only just clicked that you said you snapped the box at Eastern Creek on the weekend and were in transit to Brissy. You would have driven on the highway through my suburb, 1.5hrs north off Sydney, whilst on your way home.
I forgot that the EVO nats were on