9 replies to this topic

[jacanish74]

Hi, I am new and looking for some advice from those who know the 4G64 motors.
I recently bought a Starwagon 08/96 van with 4G64 motor and auto trans. Its in pretty good condition except the mortor has an apparent issue.
The issue is that was explained and also have a invoice/report from the mechanic explaining the issue and the corrective action they took..
It is that the balance shaft belt had shifted due to being loose, it had been retensioned and the motor works fine, starts drives and everything works(only limited short tests no extended drives as yet)
My plan is to replace all the belts give it a good service and I imagine as the belt had not broken and had not taken out the timing belt which I assume if it had the motor wouldnt run at all, a good check over and service should suffice. As the motor had only had a full rebuild about 3 years ago and done less than 40 thou.
The only issue I have noticed is the idle is high but none of the ancillary belts are on atmo and it may just need the throttle adjusted and cleaned etc.
Can anyone explain the balance shaft issue and if it is a good idea or practical idea to remove and install a balance shaft eliminator which seems a common mod.
Honestly the van is a family van not a speedster but will be made to look and sound good, wheels, paint interior etc.
If I am correct with the above it has made a very nice and cheap buy and will be well loved and used.
Thank you in advance for any advice given.

[jack be nimble]

Would the rvr full body kit fit your starwagon?
There is a full kit in for sale section. (Maybe need to lengthen side skirts?)
I think it would look awesome.

As for the bse kit, yep I think its worthwile, but I rekon you would need to pull the engine to get the shafts out and the bearing spun around.
So, wait till you pull the engine.

[jacanish74]

Thanks Jack Of All, Will look into the kit and see if its a goer.

Main issue getting the motor sorted initially though. I have connected all the belts and radiator and all up back to a full functioning unit and started it up and its all good engine wise at idle.
It doesnt smoke, it doesnt overheat and everything works, all sensors and stuff so oil pump and everything works as it supposed to and has a nice crisp idle. Drops a tad when aircon on as usual cars do.

The noticable issue is when the car hits approx 2000rpm it starts to seem very tappy and as revs rise the tappiness rises as well and is very noticable.
My main fears are:
1: The initial issue advised of the balance shaft belt being out of line creates that much vibration it seems tappy through the motor

2: There was an issue with the timing belt and the head is a little damaged with the valves possibly a bit bent.

With the 4g64 motor I have found that there is both a 8v non interference and a 16v interference heads which changed in the year of 1996 when this engine was made, is there any possible way to identify the 8v and 16v to tell them apart.

Any advice or help is appreciated as my kids are keen to get the party van going to go cruising lol.

[jack be nimble]

A compression test will give you a state of condition for the pistons, rings and detect bent valves. I suggest to get one done both dry and wet (tsp of oil down spark plug hole)
I thought 16v had that written on rocker cover. Im not familiar with the difference suffice to say that if you pull off the rocker cover and count the valve springs. There will be either 2 valver per cylinder (8v) or 4 (16v) there was 12v as well with 3 valves per cylinder and yamaha bikes had 5 per cylinder (20v).

[jacanish74]

Thanks mate, I had a better look and I found the 16 Valve marking on the rocker cover up back end of motor behind the air filter piping that goes over the motor.
Havent done a compression test but idle is good now and after a bit more investigation I have a few possible issues, one that stands out as well is the timing belt jumped a tooth or two which will create a drop in power as the timing will be out. and as far as I have read it can cause un necessary tappet noise/vibration cause they are opening and shutting early or late etc.
I am looking at the compression next weekend and then will go from there if all good will investigate other areas. Brother who is a mechanic is back home so he can check it all out.

Is there a thread or space to find a PCD and offset for the Starwagon vans. All I have been able to find is reference to overseas models thus far.
Also may try a set of headers as well to give a little boost and breathability along with modified air induction but only once engine issue is sorted.

I was lucky as the previous owner kepy every receipt and service log book and the original sales broochure and poster that came with the car from new.

What is an average price these vans go for on the open market in good condition. Its a fairly clean van, no rust , minimal marls and sweet interior. 96 model 8 seaters usually go for a bit.

Again thanks for any input, just trying to learn as much as possible as quick as possible.

[jack be nimble]

Pcd will be either 4 or 5 stud by 114.3.
If 4 stud check by measuring between 2 opposite studs.
5 stud measure adjacent stud distances and multply by 1.7

[jacanish74]

Got the engine checked yesterday, Compression all good all round.

Timing belts and all in correct placement. Dropped the oil as seemed fairly old and flushed through with clean stuff.

 

Engine idles perfectly, no smoke, no oil leakage anywhere. Doesnt overheat.

 

Issue remains of the kinda like a buzzin noise upon accelaration from a bout 1500rpm upwards. at this stage suspecting the timing belt tensioner.

[jacanish74]

Finally diagnosed the issue by pulling the front cover and sump off, little scary but hoping to salvage

 

The oil pump balance shaft on the 4G64 engine had chewed the bearing and lunched it, It was all in the bottom of the sump and the shaft itself has been chewed as well. I suspect there was a issue with a rebuild a few years ago and the correct oil flow the bearing was not met.

I am hoping that as I was planning to to eliminate the balance shafts this wont be a big issue, mainly a good clean out and double check and go from there.

 

Although I do have to replace the crankshaft sprocket that the main timing belt has to go so if anyone knows or has a spare on from a 4g63/64 I would appreciate it. Will pay $$ and postage within reason.

[jack be nimble]

Good work on finding the problem.

Your required part should be fairly easy to come by. I would think its the same part on every 4g6* engine from late 80s till mid 00s.
So that is a lot of mitsi, some hyundai and few protons.
You just need to find a scrapper engine .

[jacanish74]

Success

 

I got the balance shaft elim kit and rebuilt the oil pump with the stubby shaft and deleted the both balance shafts and got it all back together and she runs sweet with no extra vibration and all knocks are gone. Put new belt and belt tensioner and pulleys in just to be sure and tidied it up while I had it opened up.

 

I cant believe how well it runs now all with a very cheap and fairly easy job.

I didnt remove the engine from the car and even with the bearings to block off the balance shaft oil feed to keep good oil pressure, I simply used the old balance shaft itself turned around to knock the back one out and back in place, perfect size.

 

Cheers for guidance given it certainly saved quite a few $$$ for me.