120 replies to this topic

[Donkay]

Attached is the cartridge, where yours may need machining to fit the larger wheel

Attached Thumbnails

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[evo-gsr]

Um, cough  The chra is balanced as a complete unit, so putting a new piece on will change the balance of the rotating assembly as a whole. The new piece can be balanced perfectly but that does not mean it matches the balance

 

of the assembly that it's going to be fitted to. These parts, although being sold as an upgrade, still need to abide by the laws of physics and the entire chra should be re-balanced to guarantee the correct operation and longevity of

 

the turbo.

 

Sure, you might get away with it, but physics is physics irrespective of how much luck you dip it in.

At least someone around here knows what they are talking about. Good luck with yours Donkay...you ass.

[seanay00]

Lol

[Donkay]

Oh boy...

Yes, I know it's recommended to re balance the whole combo. Have any of you played with hybrid turbo setups before? Doubt it

Let's clarify, I was only mentioning the kinugawa kit, these kits are made well, and when requested for what turbo, they are pre balanced to work. (a mate of mine owns the the workshop in Taiwan to manufacture)

Let's look at it this way, any other wheel that you'd purchase, say, Garrett, their wheels are made universal, and not balanced at all, not shaved, nothing, it's pretty much make as you go. I know so, cause I've played with in the past. Plus my mate at MTQ here (Marco with his 400kw evo7 has a hybrid turbo fp red) has spoken in regards to balancing or not.

Don't get me wrong about balancing or not, but I have played with what, know workshops (999 automotive to throw it out there) to see what works.

So look at it this way, why would these wheels be pre-balanced in the 1st place? Why even bother if they knew people were going to balance it.

Like, I can understand the badgering, but kinugawa has only recently just started the after sales of hybrid setups for the past couple of years. So there isn't much talk in regards to 'straight' bolting on a wheel and is a new thing to everyone

And for people interested , I'm now using a gtx3582r

Edited by Donkay, 03 February 2014 - 09:22 PM.

[brisvr4]

Have a look at the compressor retaining nut to see how it was balanced.
If it has grind marks the whole assembly was balanced together. If this is the case you have to balance the whole assembly.
If not then the individual components were balance alone and your fine to just fit a new comp wheel. As long as the new wheel was balanced.
It's a common myth that all turbos are balanced as a completed unit.

[Benzo4gT]

SIGH.......

Taken from BoostLab website:

"One area of confusion about balancing is component versus assembly balance. Turbocharger rotating groups are made up of several component parts that are assembled to make up the rotating assembly. Of these components, only the turbine and compressor wheels are component balanced. Balancing of these components is critical, and must be done prior to assembly. The axial thrust spacers and compressor locknut are not balanced, and the mechanical fit of these components are subject to machining tolerance limits. When these pieces are mated a certain amount of “stackup” unbalance is introduced into the completed turbo".

From turbo technics web page:

"The advent of the passenger car turbocharger has brought with it a more demanding requirement because of the higher rotational speeds and the more exacting demands of the installations. The typical car engine is light in construction and hence susceptible to vibration sources, which cause noise, and the vehicle driver will not tolerate even modest noise levels".

"Assembly tolerance stack-up means that even carefully balanced components, when assembled in a group, can give a cumulative imbalance which is unacceptable, while geometric errors in shaft straightness, squareness of

 

faces etc., can also considerably influence the total assembly. This problem is exaggerated when parts are re-used in reconditioned units, and modern high-speed turbochargers are particularly sensitive".

 

 

A GT35 like yours Donkay, will spin relatively slow at 115 000 , maybe 120 000 rpm or so before exceeding efficiency, other smaller, light mass turbos can get up to 280 000 rpm so even the most minute balance discrepancy, say

 

maybe a milligram or two from the tiniest variation in any reused part would be enough to create uneven wear at the very least.

 

But, y'know, do whatever you feel is right guys, it's not like they spin really fast or anything, oh wait.......

[Donkay]

Alrite alrite... Let's cool down

Things are heating up a little, this could go on...

Let's just return this thread back to Sean, agree?

[BMGTZ]

Alrite alrite... Let's cool down

Things are heating up a little, this could go on...

Let's just return this thread back to Sean, agree?

Gee I wish I was a smart as you.....now that Ive paid you a compliment....can your mate that owns the turbo factory get us all cheap turbos?

[Benzo4gT]

Let's just return this thread back to Sean, agree?

This thread is still about Sean, the whole point of a forum is to gain collective information/wisdom. No-one is becoming heated, it's not a concern of mine or anyone else's what

fellow members choose to do, it's about information, and how it can help lead to an informed decision.

[jack be nimble]

Im getting heated.
Bloody hot 300km inland from port headland.

[brisvr4]

Indeed this could go on forever...

 

No offense but personally I'd rather take the word of someone that has been rebuilding Mitsubishi turbos for over ten years than some site that I googled.

Ask JusMX141 about his opinion rather than all of us internet researchers!

 

http://www.dsmtuners...bo-evo316g.html

 

But hey guys, its an individual decision whether to balance or not in the end. It def would not hurt it to balance it after all.

[brisvr4]

And Jack, that's what you get for living in WA! 

[evo-gsr]

Alrite alrite... let's cool down

Things are heating up a little, this could go on...

Let's just return this thread back to Sean, agree?

Should of just left it at my original comment that being..."It would be a good idea to get it balanced. "

At least then you know 100% Its right rather than relying on a maybe.

Thats the smart way of doing things In most INFORMED peoples opinion.

[evo-gsr]

Rather than taking the " my mates brothers uncle who worked at KFC" approach

 

Do it once...do it right.

[Geo&Kez]

There are different types of balancing. Static balancing is what you might do to a propeller or an individual component. Dynamic balancing is what you might do to a turbine assembly in a jet engine. Each type of balancing requires different techniques and tools. I don't know what you might do to a complete compressor assembly for an automotive turbo. A rotational balance would be good, a dynamic balance would be better. My mates brothers uncle is unemployed so I cant afford either. I have attached a PDF if you want to learn more.

Attached Files

•  Balancing.pdf   2.08MB   445 downloads

[Benzo4gT]

A guy on a forum who modifies/fixes turbos is in no way in the same league as the high end companies that produce and back a finished product based on many hours of research and development and decades of collective

 

experience using precise milling equipment controlled by software and that costs more than most of us earn in a year.
 
Regarding "a site I just googled" I honestly don't know what to say to that, should I apologise for searching for relevant information?


 

Rather than taking the " my mates brothers uncle who worked at KFC" approach
 
Do it once...do it right.

↑ Well said

[brisvr4]

Sorry if I seemed to be having a go at you personally but over the last few years I have encountered quite a few individuals that seem to possess what I like to call a "google diploma" when it comes to knowledge.
It wasn't meant as a direct dig.
I'm sure the uk firm has a great deal of expertise in new turbo builds.
Btw, I wouldn't write off Justin's skill set with Mitsubishi turbos as he has hundreds of rebuilds under his belt.
If he was doing something wrong I'm guessing he would have a very bad name by now.
Anyway all this is just cluttering up the thread.

[Benzo4gT]

Fair point, no offence taken

[seanay00]

lol holy sh!t i didnt expect this kind of reaction to this. So i am going to get it balanced properly cause i want to do this right. Im not going to spend massive money on it just yet but the bits i am changing/rebuilding will be done right. 

Does anyone know some good turbo balancing places around brisbane???

[evo-gsr]

Ask Donkey ?