16 replies to this topic

[evopwr]

Just doing a sanity check here,

 

When running a 100mm crank in a 4g63, only standard length rods (150mm) can be used as the pistons will be too short with 156mm rods.

 

Does this sound correct, or are there 'off-the-shelf' pistons to suit 100mm crank & 156mm rod in a 4g63?

 

To my understanding 156mm rod with 100mm crank is only possible with a 4g64 block..

 

 

Thanks

Alex

[jack be nimble]

Im sure there is pistons that will suit you. The pin needs to be 12mm higher than stock.

100mm crank and 150mm rods and std pistons in a 64 fits.
a 63 is 6mm lower deck height so you need 6mm raised pin to fit.
Change rods to 156mm and you need 12mm raised pin. This probably means your oil ring is now in the pin hole, so there will be grooved buttons for the pin holes that take the rings.

[evopwr]

_{From the info I have reviewed there doesn't seem to be a 156mm rod/100mm crank/4g63 block piston combination available.}

 

_{I believe there won't be enough meat on the piston with a  12mm raised pin...}

[jack be nimble]

It looks to me it would be a custom job. Im pretty sure I have read about them somewhere.

skylines have correct bore and pin size and a higher pin height. I think its might be like a +3mm pin height. I dont know if they have long rod options or anything.

[evopwr]

The safest bet would be to stay stock rod length and not rev past 8000rpm!

[jack be nimble]

Yep.
And your op is correct. Unless you have a lot of $ to throw at it.

[DOUGMO]

never seen them, the pin would be up in the comp rings though so not ideal

 

64 block as you said

[OLDIE]

I have a 7200 cut out on my stroker .Have been searching for a 64 wide block to build a 12mm longer rod motor but no luck to date.

[jack be nimble]

64 wide block?
Thats just a rwd 64 isnt it.
great wall have them brand new.

[OLDIE]

64 wide block?
Thats just a rwd 64 isnt it.
great wall have them brand new.

 

 Would imagine that they are 7 bolt Jack .??

Edited by OLDIE, 25 January 2015 - 07:02 AM.

[DOUGMO]

L300 vans after mid 92 are 7 bolt, autos are wide block (manuals are narrow)

[jack be nimble]

Great wall afaik is a 7 bolt, this is so it can run the crank sensor.
There is heaps of wide 64 7 bolts. Mitsi express, and triton. Great wall might be a 69?

[brisvr4]

Great Wall is a 69 Jack.
And what about using a 94mm crank with 153mm rods in a 63 block for 2.2L
Fairly decent rod ratio too at 1.62
Or 150mm rods with a 94mm crank for 2.1L

[OLDIE]

Great Wall is a 69 Jack.
And what about using a 94mm crank with 153mm rods in a 63 block for 2.2L
Fairly decent rod ratio too at 1.62
Or 150mm rods with a 94mm crank for 2.1L

 

 How do you come up with 2 different capacities in the same block with a 94 crank. I think the 2.2 would be in a 64 block ????

[brisvr4]

Rad, the 153mm rod option users stroker pistons. I'll look up what the 150 option uses

[BYBY5L]

Off the top of my head,
63 block options with 6mm higher pin stroker pistons
88mm crank and 156mm rods or
94mm crank and 153mm rods or
100mm crank and 150 mm rods

If it sounds right then ill throw up the 64 options if theyre wanted,

Edited by BYBY5L, 28 February 2015 - 03:26 AM.

[brisvr4]

The following is borrowed from dsm tuners.
The 153 rod option isn't included as it's a relatively recent mainstream thing...

Strokers, Destrokers, and Long Rod Engine Basics
The details behind various 4g6X engine builds.

The point of this article is to provide a better understanding of the various 4g6X based engines. To keep this short and sweet, I'll simply cover the specs of each build, the general Pros/Cons, and any additional notes relevant to that build. Also keep in mind this article was written with the 2g 7-bolt engine in mind. The basics still apply to the 1g 6-bolt and 7-bolt engines, but the build specifics may differ significantly. Here are the engines covered in this article.

- 2.0 Standard
- 2.0 Long Rod Stroker
- 2.1 Stroker
- 2.1 Long Rod Stroker
- 2.3 Stroker
- 2.4 Standard (DOHC)
- 2.4 Long Rod
- 2.2 Destroker
- 2.2 Long Rod Destroker
- 2.1 Destroker
- 2.1 Long Rod Destroker

If your just looking for the specs, scroll down to the bottom to see a simple data sheet.

A few basic concepts:
- More displacement equals faster spool and more power across the board.
- Increasing stroke is the only way to significantly increase displacement on a 4g6X engine.
- More stroke equals more power all around (good).
- More stroke also increases piston speed (bad).
- Less stroke (and more rod) increases rod ratio and decreases rod angle (good).
- You can't change stroke without changing displacement.
- To increase rod length without changing stroke, the piston and/or block height are changed.
- Remember that only 1/2 the stroke distance is in effect at one time. A 100mm crank only swings 50mm in each direction. That's why 6mm shorter pistons are used with 12mm more stroke.
- 7-bolt, 4g63, and 4g64 will sometimes be referred to as 7b, 63, and 64.


2.0 Standard (4g63)

Standard Specs:
Stroke: 88mm
Factory Bore: 85mm
Rod Length: 150mm
Wrist Pin Height: 1.375"
Displacement: 1997cc or 2.0L
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.70
Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 9.62 FPS

Pro's: The 63 has a relatively low Piston Speed along with low Rod Ratio. This equals less wear on the engine, less chance of damaging the engine by torque alone, and more reliability at high RPM's. When properly built, the 63 bottom end can rev to 10K rpm without risking damage. They are cheap to buy, easy to build, and still very popular all-around engines.

Con's: Because of it's small displacement and stroke, the 63 lacks low-end torque and spool time is "normal". Higher compression pistons or power adders such as N20 are sometimes used to counteract this issue.

Notes:
Nothing special goes on here. Simply use parts for your specific engine (6b, 7b, 1g, 2g).


2.0 Long Rod (4g63)

Standard Specs:
Stroke: 88mm
Factory Bore: 85mm
Rod Length: 156mm
Wrist Pin Height: 1.130"
Displacement: 1997cc or 2.0L
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.77
Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 9.62 FPS

Pro's: Same as the standard 63, except higher rod ratio and lower rod angle which means more reliability at high RPM's.

Con's: Same as the standard 63. There's no increase in displacement so spool is normal.

Notes: Again, pretty straight forward. It uses stroker pistons to allow for the extra 6mm in rod length.


2.1 Stroker (4g63)

Standard Specs:
Stroke: 94mm
Factory Bore: 85mm
Rod Length: 150mm
Wrist Pin Height: 1.248"
Displacement: 2133cc or 2.1L
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.59
Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 10.27 FPS

Pro's: A little more torque across the board and slight increase in spool. It would make a nice, long lasting DD engine.

Con's: It's a mild stroker, but still a stroker. The the rod angle is increased and piston speed is greater, so reliability and service life would be slightly affected. It would be more expensive to build as well since the 94mm crank is an aftermarket item.

Notes: Nothing fancy, just use the right parts and everything should go smoothly.


2.1 Long Rod Stroker (4g63)

Standard Specs:
Stroke: 94mm
Factory Bore: 85mm
Rod Length: 156mm
Wrist Pin Height: 1.012"
Displacement: 2133cc or 2.1L
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.65
Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 10.27 FPS

Pro's: Same as the 2.1 Stroker, but uses longer rods for better rod ratio and angle. So you get the same stroke/displacement with greater reliability at high RPM and torque. Lower rod angle also means less wear.

Con's: Even higher price than the 2.1 Stroker due to the 156mm rods. That's about it.

Notes: Nothing fancy, just use the right parts and everything should go smoothly.


2.3 Stroker (4g63 Block/4g64 Crank)

Standard Specs:
Stroke: 100mm
Factory Bore: 85mm
Rod Length: 150mm
Wrist Pin Height: 1.130"
Displacement: 2269cc or 2.3L
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.50
Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 10.93 FPS

Pro's: Significant increase in torque across the board and considerably faster spool. A very nice engine for a street driven car. Easier to install than the 2.4 since the 4g64 is an NA block.

Con's: Increased wear and poor reliability above 8-8.5k RPM due to the extreme rod ratio and angle. Faster piston speed will also accelerate wear.

Notes: This engine uses the 4g64 crankshaft stuffed into a 4g63 block with standard length rods and 6mm shorter pistons. It's that simple.


2.4 Standard (4g64 Block/4g63 Head)

Standard Specs:
Stroke: 100mm
Bore: 86.5mm
Rod Length: 150mm
Wrist Pin Height: 1.375"
Displacement: 2351cc or 2.4L
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.50
Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 10.93 FPS

Pro's: Same as the 2.3; More low end power and faster spool.

Con's: Same as the 2.3 Stroker. It's also not recommended to run boost with stock 4g64 internals, so building the engine is a very good idea. It's also a little more work to install and your limited in bore size.

Notes:
The standard 64 uses the exact same rods as the 7b 63, aftermarket and stock. Something like Eagle H-Beam rods for the 7b 4g63 WILL work in a 4g64. Same with pistons so long as the bore size is correct. An 86.5mm piston for the 7b 4g63 WILL fit a stock 4g64 block. Although the advertised compression will raise 1.5 or so. The biggest speed-bumps will be a proper timing setup and blocking the extra oil drains. Also, avoid 64 blocks from the 3g Eclipse and Outlander as they have a different bell-housing pattern and won't bolt up to a DSM transmission.


2.4 Long Rod (4g64 Block/4g63 Head)

Standard Specs:
Stroke: 100mm
Factory Bore: 86.5mm
Rod Length: 156mm
Wrist Pin Height: 1.130"
Displacement: 2351cc or 2.4L
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.56
Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 10.93 FPS

Pro's: The same torque increase as the 2.3 Stroker and 2.4, but greater reliability and less wear due to the longer rods.

Con's: Same cons as the 2.4 with the added expense of longer rods.

Notes: Same as the 2.4

Before we go farther, let me explain exactly what a Destroker is. With the Stroker engines, your stuffing a crank with a larger stroke into the block. With a Destroker your doing the exact opposite: Using a smaller crank in a block meant for a larger crank. Specifically, an 88mm (4g63) or 94mm crank in a 4g64 block. Because of this, the rods have to be longer from the start and end up even longer. Their small stroke and rod angularity means they can be revved very high with little risk of damage.

2.2 Destroker

Standard Specs:
Stroke: 94mm
Factory Bore: 86.5mm
Rod Length: 156mm
Wrist Pin Height: 1.248"
Displacement: 2209cc or 2.2L
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.65
Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 10.27 FPS

Pro's: More displacement than a 2.1 Stroker with equal rod ratio and piston speed.

Con's: Expensive due to the crank and rods.

Notes: None


2.2 Long Rod Destroker

Standard Specs:
Stroke: 94mm
Factory Bore: 86.5mm
Rod Length: 162mm
Wrist Pin Height: 1.012"
Displacement: 2209cc or 2.2L
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.72
Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 10.27 FPS

Pro's: Higher rod ratio than the regular 2.2, so it's even more reliable at high RPM and torque.

Con's: Same as the 2.2, except even more pricey now with 162mm rods.

Notes: None

2.1 Destroker

Standard Specs:
Stroke: 88mm
Factory Bore: 86.5mm
Rod Length: 156mm
Wrist Pin Height: 1.375"
Displacement: 2065cc or 2.1L
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.77
Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 9.62 FPS

Pro's: This engine has the same stroke as the standard 2.0, but higher rod ratio and the same piston speed. This engine can handle high torque and RPM more reliably than a 2.0

Con's: The limitations and set-backs from the 4g64 block will be the biggest problems.

Notes: None.

2.1 Long Rod Destroker

Standard Specs:
Stroke: 88mm
Factory Bore: 86.5mm
Rod Length: 162mm
Wrist Pin Height: 1.130"
Displacement: 2065cc or 2.1L
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.84
Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 9.62 FPS

Pro's: This thing has a better rod ratio than the Long Rod 2.0! These are very high revving engines. Many claim that they can reliably rev to 11k RPM and higher.

Con's: Expense and limitations of the 4g64 block.