111 replies to this topic

[tharaka]

Tharaka, can I be a pain and ask for more info and photos please?
Is the valve an exhaust valve or intake valve?
Is the valve from cylinder No. 4?
What brand/ type and heat range were the plugs?
Do you have any photos of the melted plugs?
Which cylinders had the melted plugs?
How many kms have the valves done?

Cheers,
Rob.

Rob, I'll get more pictures and info as soon as I can

[iluszn]

I would possibly go to someone who will guarantee the work that they do.

I think AFAS might have a bit more time at the moment. They just finished up a few big projects

Else speak to Ben @ racepace motorsports in bayswater.. But be warned, he is not cheap but does do a great job on everything he touches and will not do crap work either and wont fit low quality parts even if you want them, he will basically tell you to go away, but, he is very good.

[rob323]

Mechanics blame the tuner, the tuner blames the fuel, the fuel companies blame the service station owner who in turn blames it back on the fuel companies who don't really give a rat's ass and the owner of the car is stuck with the cost of doing it all over again.

It's one of the constants in life and will never change.

Tharaka, what's a MAC valve? And props to you for pulling it apart yourself.

[iluszn]

i think a while ago someone had there engine blow.. Had the fuel in the tank tested and it was shown to be contamintated.

This was given to the fuel company. needless to say i think the fuel company laughed and pretty much said "We have more money than you".

thems the brakes. small fish, big pond

[tenji`]

This is why we run STOCK ecu's mmmm knock sensor

stock ecu knock sensors are pretty shyte anyways.

you'd want a proper knock sensor.

[rob323]

I would have thought that the cause of an engine failure (whether vr4, gsr, evo or even wrx) would be of "general" interest to anyone running anything other than a stock motor and tune.

I see no reason for it to be moved.

[CLuTZ]

Yeah I cant see anyone pointing fingers at a workshop(s)

But i'd like to see Taco answer these questions though:

Tharaka, can I be a pain and ask for more info and photos please?
Is the valve an exhaust valve or intake valve?
Is the valve from cylinder No. 4?
What brand/ type and heat range were the plugs?
Do you have any photos of the melted plugs?
Which cylinders had the melted plugs?
How many kms have the valves done?

Cheers,
Rob.

[JSTYLE]

Yeah I cant see anyone pointing fingers at a workshop(s)

But i'd like to see Taco answer these questions though:

Tharaka, can I be a pain and ask for more info and photos please?
Is the valve an exhaust valve or intake valve?
Is the valve from cylinder No. 4?
What brand/ type and heat range were the plugs?
Do you have any photos of the melted plugs?
Which cylinders had the melted plugs?
How many kms have the valves done?

Cheers,
Rob.

I reckon i could answer the above as i was there for most of the happenings.

It looks to be like an exhaust one..
Valve looks to be 4th cylinder as its on the outside and he said he didnt haev comp in 4th.
The plugs were NGK BP7ES
I doubt he has photos of the plugs but can ask?
Cylinders 2-3-4 had melted plugs. funny enuff the leaneset cylinder normally is number 1!!!
No idea how many kms the valves had done but if they were factory probably <150,000km

I have my own theories on it, pretty sure itll be the same as what everyone else has.. but what can u do? shit just happens.

Jon

[JSTYLE]

Where do I go from here now?
To reputable mechanics, I guess.

as far as im concerned dan has done alot of cars and not had issues like yours...

and as for riding nuts... i have never been a customer of his.... so why would i ride his nuts???

its just playing the blame game maybe not yet but soon it will

Grant

FYI Taco's car was the FIRST car/vr4 (i think) dan tuned with a wolf!

Thats all.

Jon

[rob323]

That's a pretty good effort to melt 7 heat range plugs, and especially not in cylinder No. 4.

Tharaka, what boost were you running? (i know, more questions :roll: )

[JSTYLE]

That's a pretty good effort to melt 7 heat range plugs, and especially not in cylinder No. 4.

Tharaka, what boost were you running? (i know, more questions :roll: )

:? it melted plugs in 2 3 and 4th cylinders!!!

I think he was running 17psi ? And it happened when he was cruising home on the hwy.. so doing 100-110kmph is about 3500rpm... check the dyno graph for AFR.

Jon

[runuts]

Sounds like it had a great tune

[bazeng]

FYI Taco's car was the FIRST car/vr4 (i think) dan tuned with a wolf!

Thats all.

Jon

and it was the best wolf tune i've seen come from a wolf ecu.. if you saw mattresses car before and after, same with jamies car before and after, you'll quickly understand why.

also, he was quickly approached by robbie at wolf and was given dealer prices and tech sheets, and also asked to become a dealer which he declined as his true love is with autronic/motec.. he was also fixing alot of another wolf ecu tuners cars...

but you have to know, tuning is tuning, he tuned modprojects eg civic (first hondata he ever tuned also).. its running low 12's with no turbo... im sure he knows what he is doing..

like previous, if it was the tune, it would have died on the dyno... where its really being punished... whats to say that the intercooler piping that your mate made didn't cause the problem? whats to say that it was the intake pipe you made after the tune was completed....

i know for a fact that he didn't work on the car simply because he didn't know what you wanted to do with it... he checked it out, told you the issue and nothing went from there..

it reminds me of a story with a mates customer, this lady got her timing belt changed, 2 months later the water pump died and she blamed him for causing the issue... did the mechanic disturb the water pump? did he damage it?, or could it just have been bad timing?....

the moral of the story, if it leaves the shop in working order, the job is done!... you were fortunate to have somebody who would take the car back and clean up the tune several weeks later down the track.

imo, when your modifying your car, your void all warranties..
im at my second engine rebuild, i have my suspects of what went wrong but nothing can be proved so i just moved on and wrote off my losses...

[JSTYLE]

FYI Taco's car was the FIRST car/vr4 (i think) dan tuned with a wolf!

Thats all.

Jon

and it was the best wolf tune i've seen come from a wolf ecu.. if you saw mattresses car before and after, same with jamies car before and after, you'll quickly understand why.

also, he was quickly approached by robbie at wolf and was given dealer prices and tech sheets, and also asked to become a dealer which he declined as his true love is with autronic/motec.. he was also fixing alot of another wolf ecu tuners cars...

but you have to know, tuning is tuning, he tuned modprojects eg civic (first hondata he ever tuned also).. its running low 12's with no turbo... im sure he knows what he is doing..

like previous, if it was the tune, it would have died on the dyno... where its really being punished... whats to say that the intercooler piping that your mate made didn't cause the problem? whats to say that it was the intake pipe you made after the tune was completed....

i know for a fact that he didn't work on the car simply because he didn't know what you wanted to do with it... he checked it out, told you the issue and nothing went from there..

it reminds me of a story with a mates customer, this lady got her timing belt changed, 2 months later the water pump died and she blamed him for causing the issue... did the mechanic disturb the water pump? did he damage it?, or could it just have been bad timing?....

the moral of the story, if it leaves the shop in working order, the job is done!... you were fortunate to have somebody who would take the car back and clean up the tune several weeks later down the track.

imo, when your modifying your car, your void all warranties..
im at my second engine rebuild, i have my suspects of what went wrong but nothing can be proved so i just moved on and wrote off my losses...

Thats pretty arrogant.. If you spend what maybe 3K at workshop on ECU AND TUNE you expect them to look after you and help u etc.. but to say once it leaves teh shop its your problem is abit arrogant.. i believe if something you did on the car isnt right you have the right to take it bak and have it redone to satisfactory condition!

Maybe he cant tune wolfs? wolfs are shit? hence why u went autronic and dan (GSRSOL) has autronic.. just maybe?

Jon

[steve]

the moral of the story, if it leaves the shop in working order, the job is done!... you were fortunate to have somebody who would take the car back and clean up the tune several weeks later down the track.

imo, when your modifying your car, your void all warranties..
im at my second engine rebuild, i have my suspects of what went wrong but nothing can be proved so i just moved on and wrote off my losses...

Geez, I'm glad my mechanic is nothing like that. Finding a mechanic/tuner who stands by their work and takes pride in their job is pretty hard, but they're definitely around.

It does get complicated when you have people from all around the place working on your car though - much easier to have one person take care of everything so they know exactly what's going on, the history of the car/build, etc. I always cringe when friends tell me they're getting one place to do the head, another to screw the motor back together, and yet another to tune it. Any problems always end up in finger pointing and ultimately you end up paying.

[iluszn]

no one is flaming the tuners ability... JON!!!! :shock:

Now, an ecu is only as good as the tuner. I have had a wolf in a car for a year, no engine problems on 18 - 22psi.

Sold car, ran for another two, then engine popped. so was it the wolfs fault? Or the tuners? Neither.. it ran fine for so long.

unfortunately in this instance it could have been tune, Air leak, to many changes making it run lean? If intake was changed from standard or restrictive one. it MAY have played a part in it. But its all speculation.

Also alot of tuners make you aware either verbally or in writing that on the dyno there is no warranty.. if it blows on the dyno. Your tough luck.

its a shame it has blown. but, thats the modified car game and things WILL break when you stress them more.

But in general terms. melting internals could be running to lean or the other way, to rich.

QUESTION: What were the AFR's on cruise or part throttle? Wolf handset will tell you what its running at in real time.

ALSO: if your not happy with a particular workshop/tuner, move on, BUT, other people would have had issues with that mechanic aswell.. you can not make everyone happy. fact of life.

my 2cents

SORRY JON!! Just shit stirring you

[bazeng]

the issue with the wolf is not that they are shit, but they are limited.

i went for the autronic due to the extent of my modifications

as for dan, he's just fussy!.. a chip would have worked fine on his!

dan's gsr with the autronic made similar power to taco's and jamies cars with the wolf...

its not rocket science, once boost/starting/initial settings are defined, timing and fuel needs to be adjusted to suit... thats all to it...

the wolf is comparable (tuning wise) to a microtech, haltech, hondata, ems, etc in regards to figures in a map...

autronics use formula's to tune, you need to tell it what injectors are used, what compression ratio etc etc in order to tune effectively... the other ecu's listed above does not require this, they just need to know the input triggers (CAS), sensors etc..., injector pulse sequence and ignition sequences...

like i said above, once it leaves a workshop, its pretty much void.. its up to them if they want to take the responsibility... its like if you sold a car ie, your evo lancer.... it blew up the next day, what happens then? why did it blow up? did you sell a dud? or did the new owner abuse it? or was it bad luck??? would you return the money they paid for the car because you owned it last and they didn't do anything wrong??

the tuning business is not like the bolt on bolt off business, tuning has no warranties... its a service, not a product.. you cant return a blow job from a pro.... once you pay for it (ensuring that you only pay if they did a good job), you cannot come back 2 weeks later saying that you caught an sti... because between that blow job and the 2 weeks, you could have caught the sti from somebody/something else....

basically my point is, if you dont have rock solid proof, you shouldn't be blaming anybody...

[JSTYLE]

no one is flaming the tuners ability... JON!!!! :shock:

Now, an ecu is only as good as the tuner. I have had a wolf in a car for a year, no engine problems on 18 - 22psi.

Sold car, ran for another two, then engine popped. so was it the wolfs fault? Or the tuners? Neither.. it ran fine for so long.

unfortunately in this instance it could have been tune, Air leak, to many changes making it run lean? If intake was changed from standard or restrictive one. it MAY have played a part in it. But its all speculation.

Also alot of tuners make you aware either verbally or in writing that on the dyno there is no warranty.. if it blows on the dyno. Your tough luck.

its a shame it has blown. but, thats the modified car game and things WILL break when you stress them more.

But in general terms. melting internals could be running to lean or the other way, to rich.

QUESTION: What were the AFR's on cruise or part throttle? Wolf handset will tell you what its running at in real time.

ALSO: if your not happy with a particular workshop/tuner, move on, BUT, other people would have had issues with that mechanic aswell.. you can not make everyone happy. fact of life.

my 2cents

SORRY JON!! Just shit stirring you

I didnt read any of that.. cos i know wolfs r shit lol.. they belong at the bottom of the food chain!

Haltech
Microtech
Autronic
Motec

Thanks

Jon

[rob323]

I think he was running 17psi ? And it happened when he was cruising home on the hwy.. so doing 100-110kmph is about 3500rpm... check the dyno graph for AFR.

Jon

Yeh, but the dyno graph won't show "cruise" mixtures.
I think that "it" happened while cruising is merely that the valve let go while cruising. The plugs may have been cooked at the drags but still able to generate a spark to be able to cruise on. The valve could have slowly been fatiguing for years and just decided that it had had enough at that time. the heat from the drags may not have caused the problem, but may have contributed to it.
It could also have been things like fuel pump failure which would help explain why No. 1 cylinder wasn't toasted like the rest of them.

[iluszn]

hahah thanks Jon

But wolfs do work.. used one no issues.. But i might be going haltech next. just for something different.

you cannot come back 2 weeks later saying that you caught an sti

BAZ.. if my car went in an EVO and came back an STI.. i would be shooting the tuner