111 replies to this topic

[bazeng]

Haltech
Microtech
Autronic
Motec

they are much of a muchness... they all do the same thing.. some may do things better than others...

we can go into which ecu is better, but its not what the topic is about...
but its not the ecu... as for a tune, who knows... but i know dan and his ability, he has never blown a car up on the dyno.. he has record holding cars from amberly auto which he built and tuned... he would not have given you the car if it was not tuned correctly.. he spent a day on the dyno with your car, if it were to blow, it would have done it there and then.. a dyno is much worse than the road in regards to load to the motor...

a lesson to learn, if you race, make sure u take the right steps in maintaining your can, check your plugs, put some race gas in, check your oil etc....

sti's are great cars btw!!!

[iluszn]

OK so back on topic.

It has happened. really bad luck. So what are you planning on doing?

Forged pistons
New rods
Stainless valves?

go the hog on the rebuild? or stock items?

[JSTYLE]

I think he was running 17psi ? And it happened when he was cruising home on the hwy.. so doing 100-110kmph is about 3500rpm... check the dyno graph for AFR.

Jon

Yeh, but the dyno graph won't show "cruise" mixtures.
I think that "it" happened while cruising is merely that the valve let go while cruising. The plugs may have been cooked at the drags but still able to generate a spark to be able to cruise on. The valve could have slowly been fatiguing for years and just decided that it had had enough at that time. the heat from the drags may not have caused the problem, but may have contributed to it.
It could also have been things like fuel pump failure which would help explain why No. 1 cylinder wasn't toasted like the rest of them.

OR the bit that came off the plug sloshed and slammed itself around and decided that it would like to go out the exahust valve port today.. and it jammed itself in there (it was hot) got stock and MASHHHHHHH

OK so back on topic.

It has happened. really bad luck. So what are you planning on doing?

Forged pistons
New rods
Stainless valves?

go the hog on the rebuild? or stock items?

my mate bought the rolling shell less motor.. he is going to rebuild it.. into a road car i think.

Taco bought a ricer R34 GTT i think

Jon

[bazeng]

OR the bit that came off the plug sloshed and slammed itself around and decided that it would like to go out the exahust valve port today.. and it jammed itself in there (it was hot) got stock and MASHHHHHHH

if that did happen, then is it ngk fault? did taco change the plugs correctly? did he tighten the plug too much? was the plug too loose?

anyway, we all get the point, we know the motor is fudged, it happened during cruise after a drag day... i would install a new set of pistons, new valves, put the motor back together and problem solved, sell the motor or keep it in the vr4...

the r34 looks mint btw taco
dan made 240kw's at the wheels with a power fc on a r34 with a hiflow turbo and stock injectors (bigger fuel pump though)... some good power for an unopened motor

[bazeng]

vr4's are evil.. mine has made me broke!

[matress]

An aftermarket ECU doesn't adjust it self to modifications that you do post-tune, so in my opinion, modifying anything without getting the tune adjusted to suit is really asking for trouble.

My car was tuned by the same person that tuned Taco's... it uses the same computer, and was tuned on the same fuel. It also uses the same spark plugs.

No plugs have melted, nothing has broken and it's easily the best tune the car has had to date, although Dan tells me he still isn't happy with it and wants to put it back on the dyno to clean it up some more. I think its fine, but he can do what he wants with it

That should give you an idea of how fussy he is.

I think people should be careful that they don't take what Barry said the wrong way about once the car leaves the workshop, the service is finished. If this was the case, Dan wouldn't have taken all of these cars back into the workshop to clean up the tunes for no extra charge.

[JSTYLE]

OR the bit that came off the plug sloshed and slammed itself around and decided that it would like to go out the exahust valve port today.. and it jammed itself in there (it was hot) got stock and MASHHHHHHH

if that did happen, then is it ngk fault? did taco change the plugs correctly? did he tighten the plug too much? was the plug too loose?

WTF? what u said there was stupid..

I have NEVER heard of an NGK plug that just broke off cos it felt like it.. what makes a plug break off? heat.. what causes heat? ping? or leaness? anything else ?

meh... lifes a bitch.. and then u marry one...

thus the lessons u learn in life!

Jon

[bazeng]

I think people should be careful that they don't take what Barry said the wrong way about once the car leaves the workshop, the service is finished. If this was the case, Dan wouldn't have taken all of these cars back into the workshop to clean up the tunes for no extra charge.

What im trying to say is that Dan takes the cars back into the workshop only because he wants to, not because he has to... his customer service ethics is great... although he didn't believe he was to blame on the vr4 going, he even offered to look after you in regards to fixing the problem. months of pushing that vr4 in and out of the workshop and not a phone call to push you into getting him to work on the car, he patiently waited for your call...

and with the mach valve, i forgot to tell you that the cant find it and will give you a new apexi avcr mach valve which you can have.. it was used to diagnose another mach valve issue... he didn't think you would mind.... give him a call to arrange delivery if you want...

[bazeng]

WTF? what u said there was stupid..

I have NEVER heard of an NGK plug that just broke off cos it felt like it.. what makes a plug break off? heat.. what causes heat? ping? or leaness? anything else ?

meh... lifes a bitch.. and then u marry one...

thus the lessons u learn in life!

Jon

undertorquing a plug, insuffiencient heat transfer to the head... overheating plug.. melted plug...

overtorqued plug, fracture of the plugs insulator, can distort the plugs internal gas seals...


a quote from NGK

1. Installing Spark Plugs

Torque is one of the most critical aspects of spark plug installation. Torque directly affects the spark plugs' ability to transfer heat out of the combustion chamber. A spark plug that is under-torqued will not be fully seated on the cylinder head, hence heat transfer will be slowed. This will tend to elevate combustion chamber temperatures to unsafe levels, and pre-ignition and detonation will usually follow. Serious engine damage is not far behind.

An over-torqued spark plug can suffer from severe stress to the Metal Shell which in turn can distort the spark plug's inner gas seals or even cause a hairline fracture to the spark plug's insulator...in either case, heat transfer can again be slowed and the above mentioned conditions can occur.

The spark plug holes must always be cleaned prior to installation, otherwise you may be torquing against dirt or debris and the spark plug may actually end up under-torqued, even though your torque wrench says otherwise. Of course, you should only install spark plugs in a cool engine, because metal expands when its hot and installation may prove difficult. Proper torque specs for both aluminum and cast iron cylinder heads are listed below.

Now if you want to get really technical...

Spark Plug Type Thread Diameter Cast Iron Cylinder Head (lb-ft.) Aluminum Clyinder Head (lb-ft.)
Flat seat type (with gasket) 18 � mm 25.3~32.5
25.3~32.5
" 14 � mm 18.0~25.3 18.0~21.6
" 12 � mm 10.8~18.0 10.8~14.5
" 10 � mm 7.2~10.8 7.2~8.7
" 8 � mm -- 5.8~7.2
Conical seat type
(without gasket) 18 � mm 14.5~21.6 14.5~21.6
Conical seat type
(without gasket) 14 � mm 10.8~18.0 7.2~14.5

Im sure taco didn't use a torque wrench when he did his plugs.....

[rob323]

Neither have I.

[bazeng]

Neither have I.

some guys have what i call a human torque wrench... (rob... you must be one of them... lol)

other dont...
i personally always use anti-sieze on alloy heads, and a torque wrench when i can... if i dont use one, i always tighten it using the head of a ratchet, not the handle...

[JSTYLE]

as i said.. there is always a loop hole to escape from and pass the buck..lol thats life..

Jon

[rob323]

Neither have I.

some guys have what i call a human torque wrench... (rob... you must be one of them... lol)

You have me curious now Baz, I have over-tightened and under-tightened plugs in the past and have learnt what works. I have another vr4 in bits at home at present with the plugs out so when I do em up, I might double check it with a torque wrench to see how far off I am.

[bazeng]

good idea, let me know how close the human torque wrench is...

[GSRSOL]

I couldnt be happier with the service and workmanship I received from the workshop in question.

Dan is about as picky as I am, and spent many many many more hours than he should have on my car and getting everything mickey mouse.

Like Barry and Matty have both said, if hes not happy with something hes done, he will redo it no questions asked, in fact he will contact you and chase you up to fix it or improve it, not the other way around.




at the same time, I can see why Taco is in this mindset, I have been in a similar position with another workshop which some people on this forum frequent, and you all know, I would NEVER EVER take my car there again.

[iluszn]

that is called good customer service.

Glad someone takes pride in there work

[matress]

Dan is about as picky as I am

and you are a picky C$NT!

[MADEVO]

kids this is getting silly, i am enjoying it as much as anyone but as long as we are all just venting thats cool. But Fark this is the life we choose and it is because we either don't have the knowledge, experiance, time or the patience to do this work ourselves.
This is life, vent, don't get burnt twice by the same flame and move on in this wild world of automotive enhancement.

[3zercrowd]

Topic modified, posts removed.

Placed back up.

There will be no more off topic in this thread or i will just remove it for good next time.

Keep to the troubleshooting of THARAKAS poblem.

Thankyou

[iluszn]

any more info dude? any more findings?