37 replies to this topic

[Evo-00x]

Yes and no... the regs were drawn up 12 years ago and technology has since changed a fair bit and become more complicated for people to do later model engine, wiring and ECU conversions.

You'll find that many engineers will pass an aftermarket ECU provided you meet emissions standards, are locked out of fiddling with the tune via a password, and dont have an in-car handset to adjust the tune from inside the cabin (same goes for electronic boost controllers).

There is no stipulation as to who has to know the password.

The engineer and EPA's main concerns are to stop people fiddling with a plug-in handset and changing the tune and emissions levels after the car has passed an emissions test.

If you show compliance to the above you will pass. However, there will be people out there who will get passed, remove the password, plug in a handset or laptop, and then change the tune therefore altering their emissions levels.

[JiMi]

Awesome... i have been debating the installiation of a spare wolf 3d i have on my vr4 but i was worried about the roadworthy implications as its primarily a daily

[OLDIE]

Any more info yet ???????????

[Evo-00x]

What do you need to know mate and I'll try to answer it

[OLDIE]

What do you need to know mate and I'll try to answer it

Basicly progress +
1 TC on original block OK or mod plate needed ?
2 Haltec or similar ----------------------- with password ie no hand controllers
3 BOV venting to atmosphere on an MAP sensored veichle OK OR must be plumb back??????
4 On a factory turbo/injected car change to MPI,larger inj/turboOK????
5 Custom manifolds , ICs etc
IMHO it would be great if the rules were the same Australia wide AND no fiddleing with them by any jurisdiction allowed
Cheers & thanks
Rad

[Evo-00x]

1. Not sure what you mean by TC???

2. Yes, aftermarket ECU is OK as long as you have the car emissions tested to prove that it meets ADR 37/00 for cars manufactured between 1986-1/1/97. The password thing needs only be mentioned to an engineer to advise that you are locked out of tuning the ECU after the emissions test has been performed. I doubt any engineer or vehicle inspection station have the haltech software etc loaded on their PC's with serial connections to actually plug them into your ECU to check. As long as you mention it, it will be fine.

3. An external BOV on a vehicle with MAP sensor doesnt effect emissions at all. It's been proven time and time again. However, the EPA documentation states that you should NOT fit a BOV that vents into the air... not for emissions per say, but to reduce 'excess noise'. If you have aBOV like a GFB Stealth like I do, I can switch between external venting for competitin or plumb-back for street. As long as when you get pulled over you are running in plumb-back mode on the street you are abiding by the EPA rules and OK. The rules are different between states as far as external wastegates go. NSW say you are allowed an external wastegate provided it is plumbed back to vent upstream of the cat. The wording in VIC states that you are not allowed to have an external wastegate full stop. No mention of plumbing back or anything... thats gotta suck for the VIC boys.

4. Any changes to your induction system requires an emissions test. Throwing on a bigger turbo and injectors and remapping the ECU will require an emissions test.. if you tell someone about the mods. You can however, make it all look as standard as possible. IE GTpumps exhaust manifold, 20G or TD06/5 hybrid turbo etc and no one notices the colour of injectors or will ever know if your ECU was chipped. If you keep the stock AFM and intake pipe in place it will look stock and no one will be the wiser.

5. Custom or aftermarket manifolds and intercoolers etc falls under modifications to your intake system. You will be required to undergo an emisssions test to prove that the car still meets the emissions requirements (easy if you are just changing icoola pipes and icoola and intake manifold). Your main cause for not meeting emissions would be pumping more 98 pump fuel into the car for processing and using bigger cams.

The emissions test will see your engine revving to 4500rpm. Even then if you still have your doubts you could program the chipped ECU to run leaner for the emissions test. Boys with big turbos that dont spool til 4000rpm or so can run a rev-cut on their aftermarket ECU's to stop at 4500rpm If it passes by being under the emissions requirements at 4500rpm then you'lre fine. There is nothing documented about the emissions you make over 4500rpm as about 95% of the driving people do on our roads would be below 4500rpm. The remaining 5% would be 'negligible' depending on your slant (not good for the environment but then again, neither are diesels running 100% of the time!)

[JiMi]

tc would be "turbo charger" i presume

[GVR40]

TC is twin cam conversion

[Evo-00x]

If its a twin cam head on an original block then this is where you have to be careful.

Although your block is the original block, its still a block and doesnt effect emissions. As you are adding a later model head on the block it will be considered as an engine upgrade i.e. a different engine as you'll obviously also be changing the wiring and ECU to suit.

The emissions standards stipulate that when changing engines you need to meet the emissions requirements of the ADR the year the vehicle was manufacturered in, or the ADR for the year of the vehicle in which the engine came out of, whichever is newer.

So if you're putting a DOHC head from an EVO/VR4 onto an 84 Starion block for instance, you'll need to be compliant to the newer ADR 37/-- (1986-1996), rather than the earlier ADR your Starion was subjected to.

I nthis case yes, you would need to have it emissions tested to prove it meets the later ADR 37/-- requirements.

[OLDIE]

I have just had a Qld Transport modification engineer approve my TC stroker ,turbo, intercooler pipework AND a non plumback BOV and issue a mod plate.
He also sent me the QLD Transport paperwork regarding the acceptability of the IC MODS and BOVs

[Evo-00x]

Im very wary of some of the engineers different states have as signatories. When modifying the intake system it is common knowledge that you must undergo an emissions test. I am not sure what your original engine was in your car or what car you own, but things such as brake tests and noise test (with aftermarket exhaust systems) whilst engineering your car are usually the norm as well. Different wheels to that on the tyre placard require checking and noting overall wheel & tyre diameter, wheel width, track and tyre load rating amongst other things like seats and brake upgrades, welding, suspension etc if you have upgraded them too.

If he didnt carry out at least the emissions and exhaust noise tests then he really hasnt done his job properly. Certifying a non plumb-back BOV is against EPA (Dept of Environment and Conservation) regs in every state. Namely Protection of the Environment Operations (Noise Regulation) 2008 and the Code of Practice for Light Vehicle Modifcations in your state too. The Police are given the authority to fine people on behalf of the EPA so if they see an externally venting BOV you will still get defected or an EPA fine.

When we (the RTA in NSW) find a car that has been dodgily engineered, we audit the engineer and collate records of all the cars he's certified that year or last 20 cars for example whichever the powers to be in Complaince Section Sydney deem fit . We then send the owners of the vehicles letters to get them to bring their cars to the pits for inspection. If a certian % of cars are defectable or found not have record of things such as emissions tests etc done, their certificates are put on hold or deemed invalid until proof can be substantiated. The engineer in some cases will also lose his signatory status.

Just letting you know the way the systems is supposed to work, not that it does in every state or done the same by every engineer as its not a perfect world. NSW is a stickler and very heavy handed on modified cars.

To bring people up to date with some of the latest cross-referencing going on in NSW, in July this year the RTA audited EVERY engineering signatory and collated all the certificates since January 2009 because there were many copies going around. NOW, the engineeer submits the certificate to the Police and the RTA FIRST, then hand it to the owner.

When the owner goes to the RTA to engineer their car the RTA will compare it to the certificate already submitted to them by the engineer. The Police when pulling a car over now can compare certificates to what the driver hands over and what they have on file... if they check it.

Therefore, from July onwards, if someone hands the RTA or Police an engineer certifcate it can be cross-referenced to the original certificate already submitted to the RTA/Police in the first instance. If the RTA or Police dont have record of the certificate or there is a duplicate etc. then the person with the fakey is found out.

[GVR40]

oldie how much did your mod plate and engineers cert set you back

[OLDIE]

oldie how much did your mod plate and engineers cert set you back

$140.00

[OLDIE]

Im very wary of some of the engineers different states have as signatories. When modifying the intake system it is common knowledge that you must undergo an emissions test. I am not sure what your original engine was in your car or what car you own, but things such as brake tests and noise test (with aftermarket exhaust systems) whilst engineering your car are usually the norm as well. Different wheels to that on the tyre placard require checking and noting overall wheel & tyre diameter, wheel width, track and tyre load rating amongst other things like seats and brake upgrades, welding, suspension etc if you have upgraded them too.

If he didnt carry out at least the emissions and exhaust noise tests then he really hasnt done his job properly. Certifying a non plumb-back BOV is against EPA (Dept of Environment and Conservation) regs in every state. Namely Protection of the Environment Operations (Noise Regulation) 2008 and the Code of Practice for Light Vehicle Modifcations in your state too. The Police are given the authority to fine people on behalf of the EPA so if they see an externally venting BOV you will still get defected or an EPA fine.

When we (the RTA in NSW) find a car that has been dodgily engineered, we audit the engineer and collate records of all the cars he's certified that year or last 20 cars for example whichever the powers to be in Complaince Section Sydney deem fit . We then send the owners of the vehicles letters to get them to bring their cars to the pits for inspection. If a certian % of cars are defectable or found not have record of things such as emissions tests etc done, their certificates are put on hold or deemed invalid until proof can be substantiated. The engineer in some cases will also lose his signatory status.

Just letting you know the way the systems is supposed to work, not that it does in every state or done the same by every engineer as its not a perfect world. NSW is a stickler and very heavy handed on modified cars.

To bring people up to date with some of the latest cross-referencing going on in NSW, in July this year the RTA audited EVERY engineering signatory and collated all the certificates since January 2009 because there were many copies going around. NOW, the engineeer submits the certificate to the Police and the RTA FIRST, then hand it to the owner.

When the owner goes to the RTA to engineer their car the RTA will compare it to the certificate already submitted to them by the engineer. The Police when pulling a car over now can compare certificates to what the driver hands over and what they have on file... if they check it.

Therefore, from July onwards, if someone hands the RTA or Police an engineer certifcate it can be cross-referenced to the original certificate already submitted to the RTA/Police in the first instance. If the RTA or Police dont have record of the certificate or there is a duplicate etc. then the person with the fakey is found out.

I always get my mods approved by a Qld Transport accredited engineer and my insurer is notified as well
Re BOV's Quote ' wilst it recognised that a large number of veichles reffered to in this instruction are fitted with factory fitted with a turbocharger or supercharger installation, considerable modifications are carried out to install the intercooler , blow off valve and associated pipework , THE INSTALLATIONOF THESE COMPONENTS IS ACCEPTABLE IF FITTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH GOOD ENGINEERING PRACTICE, ie IT SHOULD NOT SIGNFICANTLY AFFECT THE NOISE AND EMISSION LEVELS OR THE VEICHLE " unquote
I carry copies of my mod approvals in the car at all times
and don't drive making boy racer wannerbe BOV piish sounds in traffic and draw umwanted attention to my car

[Evo-00x]

THE INSTALLATIONOF THESE COMPONENTS IS ACCEPTABLE IF FITTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH GOOD ENGINEERING PRACTICE, ie IT SHOULD NOT SIGNFICANTLY AFFECT THE NOISE AND EMISSION LEVELS OR THE VEICHLE "

We all know it doesnt make a significant difference to emissions and noise levels when fitting an aftermarket icoola and bov (with MAP sensor) but sadly in NSW at least it has to be PROVEN that it doesnt. If an engineered car here has induction modifications and are pulled over by the Police, they are defected until they can produce an emissions and noise reports if they werent done during engineering. When or IF they finally roll out the National Code of Practice for Light Vehicle Modifications this will be the case across all states.

[OLDIE]

All I am saying is that my car complies with the current Qld Transport rules and I have the paperwork to back it up.There are no emissions testing facilities up here
Do you have hard copy of the RTA & EPA stance map sensored cars with BOV's to atmosphere ??????????

Edited by OLDIE, 29 October 2009 - 07:33 PM.

[Evo-00x]

Yeah Rad, there's no direct wording linking 'Map sensors' to atmospheric bovs, just the use of atmospheric bovs in any case.
Here is the EPA NSW's stance on the use of bovs (see page 7) http://www.cityofsyd...leNoiseInfo.pdf .

Do not fit blow-off valves
that vent directly into the
atmosphere. Blow-off valves
that vent back into the
induction system are allowed.

You have to understand that there are no if's or buts to this statement. Its written in the EPA docs and the Police have the authority to enforce it any way they deem fit.

Another NSW EPA ruling is:

Waste gate valves are nonstandard
pressure release valves
for turbochargers. These devices
increase the noise from engines
and can cause disturbance. If
you are fitting these valves,
ensure they do not vent directly
into the atmosphere but into
the exhaust system upstream
of any mufflers.

This says we can use external (exhaust/turbo) wastegates provided they are plumb-backed into the system before the cat convertor.

However, the VIC EPA publications state external wastegates are not permitted.. period.
http://epanote2.epa..../$FILE/1031.pdf

Variable turbocharger boost valves (‘boost
controllers’) or other means of altering boost levels
are not permitted unless part of an original
manufacturer’s fitment.
‘Blow off’ (‘pop off’) valves must be plumbed back
into the system. Atmospheric venting is not
permitted.
External wastegates are not permitted.
The onus is on the fitter of the
turbocharger/supercharger and the owner of the
vehicle to meet the above conditions.

In the Vic document you wil lalso see that changes to the intake system (manifold and throttle body for instance) are also not permitted.

Guys should read these documents, but ESPECIALLY those for the States in which they live in. An engineer cannot contradict anything written in these documents. IF you do make changes to intake manifold and induction system then it has to be backed up by proof that the vehicle still meets noise and emissions levels. Sadly for external BOV's we know it doesnt effect emissons levels on a car fitted with a MAP sensor, but it DOES EFFECT noise levels and you will get pinged for it everytime by the Police under the 'excessive noise' ruling.

Level of hierarchy is:

ADR > EPA > MOTORING AUTHORITY > ENGINEER

If an engineer has to sign off on something, he has got to make sure it is in compliance with ADR, EPA and the state's motoring authory's requirements.

Edited by EVO-00X, 30 October 2009 - 02:36 AM.

[leadfoot]

Mega thread revive but seeing as vsb14 is now in place along the entire eastern seaboard I thought this might be prudent to add here under VSB 14 tere is an emissions test code I believe it is code lt3 this code is ineffect for nsw and Victoria however there is a notation for qld. Due to qlds lack of emissions testing facilities code lt3 (emissions testing) will not be used this essentially means as far as emissions are concerned qld is open slather this only applies to the im240 test not noise.

Edited by khubner1, 25 November 2012 - 10:04 PM.