3.545 vr4 gearbox w-Libero diff

[Josho Mate Theurillat]

Hey there can someone help me *coughClutzcough* i need some more info on this swap into my c83a cyborg.
Like using my current clutch flywheel setup?
Transfer case and spline count (23) will that fit the vr4 box?
Gearbox mounts the same as cyborg ones?
Libero diff explained?

Cheers

 

[evo-gsr]

Wow...no intro post no nothing..just straight into asking for help!!!?

Might want to do an introduction tell us about car and yourself first (that way people who know about what your asking will have a better idea of whats going on and might be a bit more inclined to help)

 

[Josho Mate Theurillat]

Haha too true, iv been around for a long time on mmcnz, gsrcyborgclub and 4g61t..
I had a decent build thread on gsrcyborgclub site but its gone (again)

Clutz might remember me..

Ill sort a members ride post out soon with some details of my car in its current state

 

[evo-gsr]

Good man! Look forward to having a read.

 

[Josho Mate Theurillat]

http://www.mmc.org.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41146&p=505327&hilit=22+spline#p505327

I knew it had been discussed before

But the info i need is on gsrcyborgclub noooooooo someone bring it back!

 

[to4garret]

I do have a backup of the gsrcyborgclub database, I should make an internet archive of it.

 

[Josho Mate Theurillat]

I do have a backup of the gsrcyborgclub database, I should make an internet archive of it.

Hey to4 its been awhile.. do you still have your cyborg?
That would be a great idea and have it linked to 4gtuner?
There was so much helpful information on gsrcyborgclub it would be a shame to lose it all.

 

[to4garret]

Yep still have the borg, its a garage queen now. family, house & career have gotten in the way.

Im on holiday soon, i'll look into setting up a read only version of the old site for posterity.

 

[CLuTZ]

+1 on the above!!

I am a actually going through the same conversion at the moment with my Mirage. I have an EVO 2 gear set swapped to 3.545 in a VR4 W5M33 case. It is now a 23 spline, as is the transfer case (mandatory they match).

Unless you are using a VR4 EVO/RS 3.909 gearbox, you will have to use a 21 spline transfer case. You can use your 4WD clutch and flywheel.

You can use your factory mounts on the VR4 W5M33 no dramas. The only thing from memory that you might run into is the arms on the gearbox that the cables mount to might be different.

As for the rear diff, obviously it has to be a 3.545 crownwheel and pinion. You can use your factory shafts if swapping the entire centre over. H51A, H53A and H58A (Pajero Mini) share the same OEM part numbers as Libero's for their mechanical LSD's, so theoretically, these should work too:

http://www.rhdjapan.com/cusco-type-rs-lsd-rear-diff-1-2-way-lsd501f.html

 

[CLuTZ]

P.S welcome back bro- where have you been hiding??

 

[to4garret]

If you can get your hands on a 23 spline transfer case output shaft you can swap it into (almost) any W5M33, great for converting an existing box to steel case.

No hiding Dre, you just quit FB

 

[Josho Mate Theurillat]

+1 on the above!!

I am a actually going through the same conversion at the moment with my Mirage. I have an EVO 2 gear set swapped to 3.545 in a VR4 W5M33 case. It is now a 23 spline, as is the transfer case (mandatory they match).

Unless you are using a VR4 EVO/RS 3.909 gearbox, you will have to use a 21 spline transfer case. You can use your 4WD clutch and flywheel.

You can use your factory mounts on the VR4 W5M33 no dramas. The only thing from memory that you might run into is the arms on the gearbox that the cables mount to might be different.

As for the rear diff, obviously it has to be a 3.545 crownwheel and pinion. You can use your factory shafts if swapping the entire centre over. H51A, H53A and H58A (Pajero Mini) share the same OEM part numbers as Libero's for their mechanical LSD's, so theoretically, these should work too:

http://www.rhdjapan.com/cusco-type-rs-lsd-rear-diff-1-2-way-lsd501f.html

Hey ya mate, Looks like we are in the same boat.. I too have a vr4 box with an evo gearset and a final drive of 3.545
It currently has a 22 spline transfer case shaft that im going to swap out with the 23 spine that was in my cyborg gearbox W5M31.
I think we can use the original mounts for the cables off the cyborg box?
Iam yet to pick up a Libero diff, i can get my hands on two however both are open diffs?? I think, ill give the Libero diff a go and see how it feels
Before searching for a lsd.

Pajero mini? As in a Mitsubishi Pajero has a factory 3.545 lsd?

Exciting times ahead, having to short of a ratio when dragging really let the car down in the top end of the track.

 

[CLuTZ]

That sounds like a sweet setup!

Obviously you have to use a 3.545 ratio to match your box, but you can either use the entire 5spd Libero pumpkin or you can use the 5spd Libero crownwheel and pinion in your OEM diff.

I know it's a little off topic, but the mechanical LSD's interchange no matter if what ratio... auto or manual- plus you can use your factory shafts. As you probably know, Libero LSD's a rare as fuck and probably clapped out anyway.

Also- from memory, Pajero iO rear shafts will also work, if you want to go 5-stud.

 

[Josho Mate Theurillat]

hmm I haven't picked up my Libero diff yet, i have a wreckers looking for a lsd.... im not holding my breath.

I found something interesting when changing over the transfer case shaft with the different size's in the viscous coupling

The one on the left is out of a vr4/evo box and the one on the right is out of the cyborg box, i presume the larger one
gives more drive to the rear??

Also here the difference is the gear selectors

vr4

cyborg

I dont have the cable cradle for the vr4 box so i dont know how that would line up, i can only see a fews ways for this to work
and that is to ether buy a new cable to get the right length, cut the cyborg selector off and weld it to the vr4 box or
remove the whole selector from the box and change them over..

 

[CLuTZ]

If you haven't assembled your gearbox yet then definitely swap them over internally. I got my gearbox built by blackvr (Mike Dale) over in South Australia. Unfortunately it wasn't until it was already assembled that I found out they were different. On 4g61t.org I read that you can cut and weld. For me, this isn't really ideal but is going to have to do for now.

FYI, I had the VCU in my '88 GSR's KM221 fuck out on me which gave me symptoms of clutch slipping. 2 clutches later, I realised what was going on and decided that unless I went Auto (where's the fun in that??) that I needed a W5M33 instead.

 

[Josho Mate Theurillat]

IV been busy..

Well it turns out you can knock out the little pin thats holding the selector on the shaft, its in there very tight so you have to
Make sure the selector is sitting/backed on a block of wood so you dont damage the selector.

Iv got my Libero diff in and the gearbox installed but im yet to put the transfer case in to check i have all the right ratios..
Side note the Libero axles will work on the back and are much bigger/stronger.

 

[CLuTZ]

They are bigger, but where they break is at the spline inside the diff which is the same size ^_^

Did you do bearings and seals and that while you were there??

Nice work with the selectors- way better than welding

What transfer case do you have?

 

[Josho Mate Theurillat]

Ahh ok, that does make sense as its the smallest part of the axle.

I haven't done any diff bearings or seal but i have done axle bearings and seals..

Im not sure transfer case it has, but it has a steal head on the alloy body.

Everything is all back together and running so i went for a drive it all feels good apart from the clutch needs adjusting up.
Now how can i tell everything is the right ratio? When im driving i get to about 40kph and there is a slight whine from the rear diff. The sound goes away at 50-70kph and comes back at about 75kph im not sure what happens after that as i didn't want to go much faster in case of something going wrong.

The diff is from a auto Libero would that make a difference?
The numbers did say on the vin plate under the trans section 3309, i would have thought it should say 3545?

 

[Josho Mate Theurillat]

So i did install a diff from an automatic Libero whitch is 3.309 ratio, lucky i only drove about 3ks.
I found a RVR Sports gear at the local wreckers witch has a 3.545 diff (hoping it was a lsd but it wasnt) so i pulled the diff head out to see if it would fit inside my oem cyborg housing.. it wont.
The crown wheel and pinion is too wide to fit in the bearing groves, does this mean if i were to swap over a lsd from a cd5a Gsr i would have the same problem? Or is just when you say swap over the crown wheel and pinion that we have to disassemble the crown and pinion and some how swap over the bits to the cyborg diff/casing?

 

[Josho Mate Theurillat]

On a side note i can now pull a rear diff out of cyborg or Libero in 30mins