4G64. Smokey on start up, not good.

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tritondan

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Joined
Jun 19, 2009
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Location
Ballarat, Victoria
Hello all.
I've got a problem with the ute. Jamie suggested I start a therad here in the tech section.


I have a triton dual cab 4G64 EFI 16v. When started, it blows no smoke. After a few secs it starts blowing lots of greyish blue smoke. After about 30 secs it slows, then stops. Fills the driveway in the meantime. Wife making noise about it. :thumbsdown:

I dont think its valve seals as it runs clear under decelleration. After the event, it uses no oil.

I think I mislead Jamie when I said that it uses no oil as it uses about 100 ml oil each time it happens, then it uses no oil.

Only happens once a day during first start, after that its fine. Seems to need the cold overnight to make it happen.

Is there any known problems with this model/motor?

I think I may be up for a rebuild?

Is there a bolt in "crate" motor with turbo avalable for a ute?(MK) I use it for work, so I need to do someting soon before it lunches itself.

Happy to hear from any and all with any ideas. Thanks.
 
When I pulled apart the Nimbus 4G64 engine in December I discovered that the EGR valve in it and in the intake manifold was fulll of crud. Actually to the point of fully choking up the EGR valve. I believe this may be a common problem with the 4G64 SOHC intakes and EGR valves. To check, remove the EGR valve on the side of the intake manifold and have a look in it. If its full of black gritty shit, remove it and the intake manifold and give them both a huge cleanout so that the channels are free and clean again. Its a quick and easy sanity check to carry out at home before getting a leak down test etc.
 
EVO-00X said:
When I pulled apart the Nimbus 4G64 engine in December I discovered that the EGR valve in it and in the intake manifold was fulll of crud. Actually to the point of fully choking up the EGR valve. I believe this may be a common problem with the 4G64 SOHC intakes and EGR valves. To check, remove the EGR valve on the side of the intake manifold and have a look in it. If its full of black gritty shit, remove it and the intake manifold and give them both a huge cleanout so that the channels are free and clean again. Its a quick and easy sanity check to carry out at home before getting a leak down test etc.
Click to expand...


Thanks mate, I give that a check, its a good thought.
 
put a evo dohc and turbo on it and itll be a ball tearer:thumbsup: as for the smoke i wouldnt have a clue.....get ur motor comp/leak tested
 
S15ETA said:
put a evo dohc and turbo on it and itll be a ball tearer:thumbsup: as for the smoke i wouldnt have a clue.....get ur motor comp/leak tested
Click to expand...

I shouldnt have to worry about smoke if I use your first suggestion.
What do you think I might be up for ($$$ ballpark)?
Where is a good place to look for one?
Do you think it will bolt to the existing box? The id plate says R5M21 for the trans.

Thanks mate.

Sorry about the double post- Ill work out how to use a computer one day.
 
Does it idle very roughly on startup and have trouble maintaining a steady idle like its got some big cams in it? If not, then its probably not the EGR valve stuck open from being clogged up.

I'd probably be leaning more toward a leaking valve stem seal mate, even though you dont think its the problem its definitely worth checking out.

Take out your spark plugs and have a look to see if they are all pretty fouled up from crap or just one of them is.
 
EVO-00X said:
Does it idle very roughly on startup and have trouble maintaining a steady idle like its got some big cams in it? If not, then its probably not the EGR valve stuck open from being clogged up.

I'd probably be leaning more toward a leaking valve stem seal mate, even though you dont think its the problem its definitely worth checking out.

Take out your spark plugs and have a look to see if they are all pretty fouled up from crap or just one of them is.
Click to expand...

No, it idles nice, even dead cold. Idle speed motor works ok. I know that on Magnas, when the idle speed motor goes, it takes a while, but it cooks caps in the ecu. I'll pull the plugs on w/e, see what they look like. I'm still sus on the rings.

EGR valve, thats the little black boy on the top of the manifold, just under the tube from the airbox, right???
 
EVO-00X said:
Na, its a gold UFO almost wastegate looking thing bolted to the side of your intake manifold.
Click to expand...

Thanks mate. I didnt get time to do anything on it over the weekend, Ill pull the plugs soon.

I still have a lot to learn about fuel injection and diagnosis. I really hope this can be fixed by a sensor, but I have my doubts.
 
Hi guys,

Its been a while since my last visit.

Update on the ol' Triton.

Smoke problem had been getting worse, not better (funny 'bout that, it didnt fix itself, or go away).

I did something an old guy shouldn't do in a work ute. Gave an F150 a bit of a high speed run. Well I couldnt let a dirty old Ford pull away like that. He saw me in his mirror, and ,well you know the rest.

Effie peeled off. Old Ute held its own. I even gave it a pat on the dash. I also had a bit of steel in the back (I guess 150kg). I was proud, even if it does smoke when starting.

Anyways, couple of kays down the road, ute starts running rough. Limp home. Find one cylinder must have been left on the road - well it wasn't where it should have been. No lump on No. 2 cyl. Head off. Fried valve. Ex of course.

I found a changeover engine and back on the road (it is a work ute).

I pulled the "old and busted" 4G64 down after all this, what I found was interesting (to me anyway), other than the burnt valve.

I have not seen oil rings as gunged up and carbonised as these ones. Especialy in a modern motor. I have never seen it as bad as this. Even in old "grampa" red motors. I think the previous owner didn't know what an oil change was. Compression rings were ok, bores a bit glassy, but not bad. Insides were very dirty. Oil control rings won't spring out of the groove.

There are 2 morrals to the story,
1, Don't buy a ute off a surfie that even looks like he dosn't know what an oil change is.
2, A 2.4 litre Mitsubushi V's a 5.7 litre Ford...
Ford, outright victor but the 4G64 won on handicap - even if it did finally lunch itself.

So in summary, the head and block appear to be aok. It came apart due to an ignition problem that cooked the valve and it was blowing smoke due to the oil control rings, but all 4 oil ring sad and not an individual broken one. This would explain why the bores are still looking good (no scores, etc)

I now have a good 4G64 block, bottom end and head (with bad valves) that I dont need. I really thought it was going to be a basket case, with scratched bores and maybe some munched metal, but thats Mitsubushi for you.

My therory; It sometimes used to "ping". I believe this is the cause of the burnt valve. Bit of a no-brainer there. Detonation will do valves, at best. Why it was so far advanced? - I dont know.
The "smokey on start-up" problem, well I think it was a case of the rings so full of shit that the bore expanded before the oil rings (and gunge) warmed enough to release and take up. Hence the no smoke immediatly after fire-up, but after about 10 seconds, smoke starts (bores warming), then after about 30 - 40 seconds smoke stops (rings releasing and taking up). It would also explain why it didn't do it after a warm night, as the carbon in the rings didn't get stiff enough to lock the oil rings.
I hope this little story helps anyone else with a similar problem.

Next project; the old mouldy Gallant.

Danny.
 
lol... stick it to the Fords Danny, my 2.4 Nimbus goes not bad for an old girl either. Ah well, she'll live to fight another day no doubt.
If you ever feel like selling your old 4G64 crank gimme a yell as I know somone who'd like to build a stroker at the moment :) but you'd probably get someone in Vic offer you some cash for the old 2.4 donk complete.
 
Hey mate, glad to hear you got it sorted. My landy did a similar thing and it turned out to be chewed piston rings (we found out during a rebuild). They would leak oil into the cylinder when the pistons cooled down and they contracted a tiny bit as metal does when it cools then once it got warm and expanded, no more leak.

Who's your mechanic here in ballarat? We should catch up at some point, there's a few of us on here from ballarat.
 
EVO-00X said:
lol... stick it to the Fords Danny, my 2.4 Nimbus goes not bad for an old girl either. Ah well, she'll live to fight another day no doubt.
If you ever feel like selling your old 4G64 crank gimme a yell as I know somone who'd like to build a stroker at the moment :) but you'd probably get someone in Vic offer you some cash for the old 2.4 donk complete.
Click to expand...

Keep your eyes out in the classifieds, mate. You might see a 4G64 "short" motor advertised soon, along with a 4G63 sohc maybe. I also have an early carbed 4G54(?)(ex MF triton) that I sold on flea-bay, but it didn't get collected. Gotta love "the bay":rolleyes:. Not many Nimbus arrond now mate. Good to see.

I would have been happier if it was a chev, but thats like taking candy from a bub.

Entaran said:
Hey mate, glad to hear you got it sorted. My landy did a similar thing and it turned out to be chewed piston rings (we found out during a rebuild). They would leak oil into the cylinder when the pistons cooled down and they contracted a tiny bit as metal does when it cools then once it got warm and expanded, no more leak.

Who's your mechanic here in ballarat? We should catch up at some point, there's a few of us on here from ballarat.
Click to expand...

Mate, it sounds like they both had the same issue with a similar cause. I put mine down to the previous owner. Easy cop out for me, but I really dont think the oil had been changed until I got it. He said he had owned it for about ten years.
After this, it goes to prove Mitsubushi's like good oil, changed regularly, but what motor dosn't?

Paul Kneebone is my Mechanic. He had Innovative Automotive (near Ballarat Trailers). Mostly american muscle, and hipo jap. He has since closed his workshop there and is down Dandenong, Croydon way. He helps me with EFI diagnosis, but I do all my own mechanical work other than that. I have my own Enineering busines, Metalcraft Engineering (shameless plug). I would do some machining and custom fab for him, he would help me. He's a bit picky with his work, so its got to be good or fast to get his attention. Really good with superchargers.

I'm out Smythesdale way. Sound like there are more 4G fans arround than what I thought.
Any local meets?

Danny.
 
Hi guys,
I need some cash, so I got to sell some bits.
I put the bottom end (short motor) on flea-bay.

I got to make a donation to list my other stuff here, I'll do it soon.
Pretty much a whole Gallant hatch,

Danny.
 
Triton V's Effie update.

To bring you up to speed...
Raced an F100. Didn't pass him, but didn't loose him. Sat up his arse, so to speak. About equal, I'd say.
Triton said "I'll be needing a new motor after that, thanks".
Ouch.

Drag was equal, but I lost a donk, so Effie 1; Triton 0.

Well, just the other day, while driving the same road and what befalls my eyes...

The same shit heap F-truck (not that they all are, but this one was) on the back of a tilt tray...:w00t: :w00t:

F-truck 1, Triton 1.

Ahhh,.. sweet karma.
 

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