bye bye Turbo

[Gooch]

hey folks,

My vr4 has shat its turbo completely, so am due for an upgrade. I have brought a TD05 a year back but figure it may be too big.
Seeing as mine was a small TD04 I am suspecting the oil lines will need to be replaced what other items do you think or know I will need to upgrade not considering my Auto?

Does this also mean that I will have no boost below 3k now? I loved my small turbo cause it use to spool up at about 2125 rpm.
What else can I expect from this upgrade? Fuel injectors, sensors, remapping the ECU etc??

 

[Rockabilly]

hey folks,

My vr4 has shat its turbo completely, so am due for an upgrade. I have brought a TD05 a year back but figure it may be too big.
Seeing as mine was a small TD04 I am suspecting the oil lines will need to be replaced what other items do you think or know I will need to upgrade not considering my Auto?

Does this also mean that I will have no boost below 3k now? I loved my small turbo cause it use to spool up at about 2125 rpm.
What else can I expect from this upgrade? Fuel injectors, sensors, remapping the ECU etc??

I have a good nick auto turbo if you want to stay stock.
Cheers !

 

[youda]

see if you can track down a tdo5 small 16g. might be what your looking for.

 

[CLuTZ]

TD05 FTW (sorry aldo )

 

[brettu26]

Just whack on a Td05 Bob! you will not regret it and you can run a 14b on stock injectors, but I would make it worthwhile and go 16G like Youda said
you would get benefit out of a chipped ecu then yeah

 

[Rockabilly]

True Dre.
My Monte is detuned down to a S16g atm with RVR 450s & it responds quick enough.
Better for 2nd gear corner hits.
Cheers !

 

[trist]

what sort of TD05 is it

 

[milkandoj]

If you want really fast spool how about a 14b and throw a 070 rear housing from a 16g on it. De restricts it a lot up top and it still spools like a champ.
Ive been in a car with one of these on it and it spooled really well, better actually than the old cracked 060 rear housing. It goes really well, full of mid range. He may even pipe up.
You would need to port out the vr4 manifold to match the larger entry or the 070 housing, or buy an evo manifold.


Aussie dollar is really strong atm, so US turbos become cheap. For a quick spooling turbo with a bit more top end than a evo3 big16g, FP68hta would be a nice bet. That's if you plan to do the fuel system mods to match.

 

[Gooch]

Thanks folks,
I will go with the Td05 as I am looking for about 195awkw.
So I have done some calculations for injector size:
195 x 1.25 = 243.75(crank taking consideration for drivetrain loss)
244 x 1.34 = 327 (for hp)
327 / 4 = 82 hp of fuel
82 / 2 = 41 lb/hr
41 x 10.2 = 418.2cc/injector (rough estimate)
So my 450's should be ample.
In fact the 450's would be ok for 200awkw as well.
So no real need for extra tuning maybe?
Everyones thoughts?
(Ps: this is awesome I did this from my new samsung galaxy s)

 

[Gooch]

I have already added a evo 3 manifold some time ago

 

[EVO85]

Which TD05? If you choose the standard VR-4 14b, I think you'll be stuggling to get 195kw's at the wheels as from memory, they're only rated between 280-300hp (flywheel) and don't really like boost any higher than 17psi. A big TD05 16g would be the way to go IMO. If you have all the supporting mods, they still are very responsive (not anywhere near a TD04 though) and it'll give you some room for improvement when the time 195kw's is no longer good enough.

Also, I would be going for 510cc injectors at that power level.

 

[Rockabilly]

Gooch your VR4 auto box is gonna snap the 2nd gear band in no time.
If you want the box to handle punishment, I can build you one, but I'm in Sydney.
Cheers !

 

[milkandoj]

Like evo85 said mate, 450's wont get you to 200kw at all four. Punch some numbers into this calculator as a rough guide, remember to change the B.S.F.C to 0.6 for a turbo motor and number of injectors to 4.
http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php4

You'll get there much easier with a big 16g, pushing around the 20psi mark. A walbro it on the cards to.
Your would be pushing a 14b out of its efficiency range to get 200kw at the wheels, even with an 070 rear wheel. They could do it but on a fair bit of boost and water/meth injection or on e85. Its not the easiest way to do it.

If you want some rough numbers to play with, 200kw is 268hp at all 4. Then account for you loosing 20% on drive train loss, (could be 25% some say). But at 20% that's 335hp at the crank. (335*0.8 = 268)
Now 1lb or air a minute through the engine (not psi of boost, air per minute) will give you 9-10hp on pump gas, probably closer to 9hp on a moderately efficient setup, say not a great intercooler or dump pipe so you need to push a bit more boost into the motor to make your power. So you need 33-37lb of air a minute through the motor to make your 335 crank hp.

If you want to say 25% drive train loss you'll need 40lb or air to get your 360 crank hp to get your 268whp (and at 9hp per lb/min of air).
This a bit high as E3 big 16g's will hit 200kw at all 4, but need around 22-24psi to push 38lb/min or air. And need to be really pushed to make 40lb of air, that's more in the realm of a hybrid td05 20g's flow. So the drive train loss must lie somewhere between 20-25% at this power level. Likely closer to 20% for a manual. Your auto will need more power.


The 14b will struggle at any sort of sane boost level. A E3 big16g will get you there with some nice spool.
These are only numbers but i feel like they are much more realistic ones. Hope it helps

E3 Big16g and 510's or 560s will get you there safely. And put up the the extra "lag" or put your sights on say 180kw and do it with a small 16g. Make sure you have decent intercooling, and a decent dump pipe like an evo 3 item, and enough fuel to match.

 

[Gooch]

Gooch your VR4 auto box is gonna snap the 2nd gear band in no time.
If you want the box to handle punishment, I can build you one, but I'm in Sydney.
Cheers !

Yeah I know.
Last time I tried I brought an auto box for u to do up but u had some concrete going in in the mean time the wanker sold or gave the auto away I was left with a dented bank balance.life lesson learnt but have to save more to full fill the upgrade.
I currently run on 14 psi if I upgrade the turbo and reduce the psi to 12 would it ok for a while?

 

[Gooch]

Like evo85 said mate, 450's wont get you to 200kw at all four. Punch some numbers into this calculator as a rough guide, remember to change the B.S.F.C to 0.6 for a turbo motor and number of injectors to 4.
http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php4

You'll get there much easier with a big 16g, pushing around the 20psi mark. A walbro it on the cards to.
Your would be pushing a 14b out of its efficiency range to get 200kw at the wheels, even with an 070 rear wheel. They could do it but on a fair bit of boost and water/meth injection or on e85. Its not the easiest way to do it.

If you want some rough numbers to play with, 200kw is 268hp at all 4. Then account for you loosing 20% on drive train loss, (could be 25% some say). But at 20% that's 335hp at the crank. (335*0.8 = 268)
Now 1lb or air a minute through the engine (not psi of boost, air per minute) will give you 9-10hp on pump gas, probably closer to 9hp on a moderately efficient setup, say not a great intercooler or dump pipe so you need to push a bit more boost into the motor to make your power. So you need 33-37lb of air a minute through the motor to make your 335 crank hp.

If you want to say 25% drive train loss you'll need 40lb or air to get your 360 crank hp to get your 268whp (and at 9hp per lb/min of air).
This a bit high as E3 big 16g's will hit 200kw at all 4, but need around 22-24psi to push 38lb/min or air. And need to be really pushed to make 40lb of air, that's more in the realm of a hybrid td05 20g's flow. So the drive train loss must lie somewhere between 20-25% at this power level. Likely closer to 20% for a manual. Your auto will need more power.


The 14b will struggle at any sort of sane boost level. A E3 big16g will get you there with some nice spool.
These are only numbers but i feel like they are much more realistic ones. Hope it helps

E3 Big16g and 510's or 560s will get you there safely. And put up the the extra "lag" or put your sights on say 180kw and do it with a small 16g. Make sure you have decent intercooling, and a decent dump pipe like an evo 3 item, and enough fuel to match.

All good advice, my figures are based on 25% loss.
I have a td05 which I need to figure out if it is a big 16g our not.
Rest I think I got covered on paper aleast. 418 is minimum flow. i also have a linkG4 to help with the tuning. I will give it a go c if it works ; )
I been reading ur previous posts on upgrades so have taken it all in some good info there. May want to consult with u further via pm if that is ok.

 

[Rockabilly]

A band lug will bend past 90deg first off & then it will crack & snap off. It's a case of when will it let go.
Before I decided to modify my 2nd gear band, I snapped 2 in 2nd gear & 1 in 4th gear.
Miodrag, Joey & myself have never broken my modded band.
Miodrag shit a convertor & I've sorted that out. Now it's axles & diffs that break.
Cheers !

 

[milkandoj]

I haven't drive an auto vr4 so how how much higher boost threshold is acceptable is something you will have to think about.
You can stall it up at the light a bit even on a stock box, but im not sure about the transitional driving. On a manual a big16g is very punchy turbo and the slightly higher boost threshold compared to a 14b is well worth it in the mid range punch you pick up. And will save you from being disappointed if you don't hit your target. And gives you ab it of room to slowly grow the setup. From there you make the next step up.

There is a reason companies offer E316g's as a bolt up option to Subaru's haha.

 

[Gooch]

Thanks again folks.
I'll budget on doing the auto.
Step by step I guess.

 

[brettu26]

I will have a stock 14B available after Saturday if you would like it in the meantime Bob. I may have some of the oil/water feed lines too. let me know

 

[TMAK]

wow Bob, you still haven't used that turbo I sold you?
bloody use it! lol