Do I need forged internals???

[progkamol]

Hi all,

Finally, after long waited, I have gathered all the parts that I will need for my car and I am going to get them install in Feb. But now some people have been telling be to upgrade the internals. So now I wanted to find out that is fordged internals really necessary for my plan of modifying or not.

Here's the details:
Car - 1995 Lancer CC GSR
Engine - 4G93T

Current modifications:
- 2.5" straight through exhaust pipe
- Front mount intercooler
- BOV
- Boost controller
- rebuilt gearbox
- Exedy clutch & CRMO flywheel (7 bolts)
- and some small bits and pieces that has nothing to do with engine

Here are what is going into the car:
- 510 cc injectors
- Sard fuel pump
- Sard fuel pressure regulator
- TD06 20G turbo
- custom exhaust manifold
- New radiator & water pump
- New timing belt, pulley and tensioner
- HKS airfilter & piping
- HKS spark plugs & leads
- Haltech ECU


Only those things are going into the car according to my current plan. Its pretty mild modification but I don't have enough $$$ for the cams YET <<< (thats the key word). And if I will start to mess around with cams then sure as hell I will have forged internals. But for now, with those list of mods, do you guys really think I'm going to need forged internals???

Your comments are appreciated

 

[Missile]

Well the rods are the weak point of the 4g93t... if you do bit the bullet and decide to go forged insides you will want the wallet to back it up, 93t parts are dearer than 63t parts

 

[VR-4Squid]

Which is cheaper, rebuilding it now, or buying another 4G93 when this one goes bang?

 

[EVO85]

I guess it all depends on what condition the engine currently is in. Personally, I wouldn't bother pulling apart a perfectly good motor until you really have to. If it goes bang...then that's a perfect excuse to upgrade internals - do it once and properly. In the mean time, just try not to wind too much boost into her...

 

[steve]

Nope, you need a 2L .. with forged internals

If you keep the boost low, you should be okay. Or you might get lucky - I know of one dead stock (internally) 4G93 that spent a few years getting thrashed on 24psi through a GT30 before finally dying, but that's definitely the exception rather than the rule, and I sure wouldn't count on it.

Keep in mind that if the rods do decide to let go, it could cost you more than just a new motor - I've seen rods that popped out to say hello damage alternators and radiators in the past, not to mention the not insignificant risk of fire.

You'll want a bigger exhaust for that turbo too.

 

[progkamol]

Ok ... this is what happened before ... about a year ago an idiot in one workshop damage my boost control line and I was driving the car (trashing it from time to time) with 25psi of boost (don't ask how did that happened) it last me 7 months without anything happened to it (about 6000k been driven) ... I never found out until I bring to cypher to have the gear box rebuild and they told me that ... everyone said I was lucky that the motor didn't blow.

Now, how much will I be looking at to get the forged internals done, parts? and labour?

The plan is to run the car at 1.2 bar after install those parts so what u all think? will I blow the thing with 1.2bar of boost???

 

[p3akin]

my frist 4g93t was running 1.1 bar max all day.. and car was stock..

said bye bye after about 8-9 months..

so with the mods, i wouldnt run that much..

 

[OFFON-4]

Its like fucking with a condom....you dont need too but its a shit load safer!!!!

Steve stop preaching the way of the 2ltr lol....Damm 63'z LoL

 

[progkamol]

Its like fucking with a condom....you dont need too but its a shit load safer!!!!

Steve stop preaching the way of the 2ltr lol....Damm 63'z LoL

but it feels much nicer without one!!!

 

[VR-4Squid]

but it feels much nicer without one!!!

until the itching/burning starts

 

[VR-4Squid]

or the calls of...

"daddy"

 

[enragevr4]

or the calls of...

"daddy"

...ahhh the good old kiwi humour..i miss home LOL

is the vr4 still running in RWD?

 

[Dean]

I think you have the wrong turbo for those mods.
You will be running it below its performance @ 1.2bar, and you will get more lag for relatively smaller power gains.
I also think you might need larger injectors.
They say that around the 1bar mark is the maximum a GSR should be pushed to with standard internals.

 

[tUfRiCe]

yeh was just going to chime in how are you planning on making power with that turbo with so little mods? an little boost?

 

[mattrat]

just ovaboost it yo

 

[VR-4Squid]

...ahhh the good old kiwi humour..i miss home LOL

is the vr4 still running in RWD?

That one is looking a little forlorn at the moment, missing rear suspension, intercooler and piping and everything from inside except for one bucket seat a steeringwheel and a ton of wiring whilst it waits for me to find some money for a full cage (incase I forget which side is up).

The other one is probably going to get the 16G from that one as well.

In response to the original discussion, there's a big difference between 1bar from a pissy little td04, and 1bar from a much bigger turbo. It's not the boost pressure that bends rods, it's what done with it

 

[EVO-00X]

Im with Steve and its not preaching it's actually offering good advice lol.

I also reckon ditch the 4G93T as the cost of going forged internals in a GSR engine with machining etc is going to cost thousands and overkill for what he wants. He can simply get a stock 4G63T from a VR4 or Evo. How many guys you see who have ditched the 4G93T for a 4G63T have you heard say 'gee I liked the 4G93T better' lol A very small percentage thats for sure

A 4G63T engine without turbo will cost you under $1000 when a complete 4G93T rebuild with forgies and machining etc a few thousand $$. There's a good 4G63T into a GSR DIY conversion guide in this forum you can follow to help you through it. A good stock 4G63T engine is going to cost you less time and money than your current 4G93T engine in the long run if you were to leave it as is. The 4G63T is a lot stronger and better engine and can easily take the 20G's abuse at 1.1 bar without upgrading the bottom end. In fact both VR4/EVO could take 230kw atw easy every day. Some examples are pulling over 25psi and 300kw atw on stock bottom end but obviously not running that figure all day every day.

A 20G on your stock 4G93T isnt going to be a case of 'if it can handle it' but more of a case of 'is it going to let go today or not'. Dont kid yourself because it will happen at that sort of boost level with a bigger turbo. The 4G93T's rods are piss weak and those numbers you hear about some people making on the 4G93T on stock bottom ends are an exception rather than the rule as most let go a little over 1 bar boost even with a stock TD04 even.

If you have some money itching in your wallet Id be going the stock 4G63T engine, a MLS headgasket, ARP headbolts and a new Gates timing belt kit and water pump before fitting it into your car. When you get the itch for more power later rebuild the 4G63T with forged internals as parts are a lot cheaper and easier to come by

 

[lozza]

^^^agree.

go with the 2L and you'll never look back. my 4G93t went bang at 1.1bar along with almost everyone else. 4G63 parts are much cheaper as well.

if you are on a tight budget then either way you really need to do the work yourself. you can save a shitload but you will need certain tools.

for your power goals using a 2L, don't bother with forged internals. in fact unless you're going more than 55lb/min turbo to its potential don't waste your dosh. for a 40-50lb/min turbo you just need:

2L 6-bolt
ARP head studs
std composite head gasket
3G lifters
new rings
ARP rod bolts?
new std main bolts
new front case if oil pump is out of spec
new water pump
rod & main bearings (whatever, alum. are fine)
mitsi gasket set (has head/manifold gaskets, etc)

machining
head faced
head pressure check (may need valves resurfaced)
crankshaft check and polish
bores checked and honed?

i can put you on to a machinist here in perth if you want. he made a torque plate especially for my motor (2L) so don't have to get your own.

there's heaps of other crap but make your decision first and go from there. there are heaps of people to help here.
you may evern want to consider EVO 7 bolt for an easier conversion but a few trade-offs (do your research)

cheers and good luck

lorry

btw - you will have shit spool with a td06 20g on a 1.8L. i'm assuming your talking about proper 06 not a bastard 05 turbine variety.

 

[3zercrowd]

Im with Steve and its not preaching it's actually offering good advice lol.

I also reckon ditch the 4G93T as the cost of going forged internals in a GSR engine with machining etc is going to cost thousands and overkill for what he wants. He can simply get a stock 4G63T from a VR4 or Evo. How many guys you see who have ditched the 4G93T for a 4G63T have you heard say 'gee I liked the 4G93T better' lol A very small percentage thats for sure

A 4G63T engine without turbo will cost you under $1000 when a complete 4G93T rebuild with forgies and machining etc a few thousand $$. There's a good 4G63T into a GSR DIY conversion guide in this forum you can follow to help you through it. A good stock 4G63T engine is going to cost you less time and money than your current 4G93T engine in the long run if you were to leave it as is. The 4G63T is a lot stronger and better engine and can easily take the 20G's abuse at 1.1 bar without upgrading the bottom end. In fact both VR4/EVO could take 230kw atw easy every day. Some examples are pulling over 25psi and 300kw atw on stock bottom end but obviously not running that figure all day every day.

A 20G on your stock 4G93T isnt going to be a case of 'if it can handle it' but more of a case of 'is it going to let go today or not'. Dont kid yourself because it will happen at that sort of boost level with a bigger turbo. The 4G93T's rods are piss weak and those numbers you hear about some people making on the 4G93T on stock bottom ends are an exception rather than the rule as most let go a little over 1 bar boost even with a stock TD04 even.

If you have some money itching in your wallet Id be going the stock 4G63T engine, a MLS headgasket, ARP headbolts and a new Gates timing belt kit and water pump before fitting it into your car. When you get the itch for more power later rebuild the 4G63T with forged internals as parts are a lot cheaper and easier to come by

Problem is these days that conversion has been done to death and its cheaper to just buy a GSR already converted with 2L, as they are selling for peanuts these days......

If people are going to get the itch to forge a 63 they would probably be out to spend the money anyway and might as well forge the 93.

You can get spool rods which are going great guns in VL turbos and skylines down south, for $400-500 mark off Ebay(Make sure its the spool company selling them or someone affiliated with them)Or go for argo rods. CP pistons from $600-800(depending on who you know)

I'm sure that machining, balancing, reconditioning the head and that sort of thing wont cost any extra over a 63. Grab a headgasket and seal kits from the sponsors or where ever you can get them(full vrs kit perhaps?).

Add that up and its not that far of a chasm difference from a 63 build like everyone thinks.... Also if you do a 93 build you will not need to do the following:

You dont need to register the engine number with the relevant authorities.(UNLESS you use a different engine to forge of course) and you dont need to use a mod plate and engineering depending on the state.
You dont need different wiring or modifying the loom/connections etc...
You dont need a 4G63T (Evo)flywheel.
Evo/vr4 mounts.
If you got the VR4 engine you will also need to the passenger side driveshaft.
Re-do aircon hoses etc...

Add all the time cost and effort and see which one is for you!



Try to actually help the person rather then saying just chuck a 63 into it.

The old "Get a 63" is getting old fast.....

People like myself and others are out for a change and ditching the 4G63T conversion for something a little different and perhaps special

Watch my members rides build space in the future

I Hope you make the right decision for YOU

Oh yeah if you do not go forged with the 93, ditch the 20G it will be lag city and you wont enjoy your ride at all.
I went from 12.8@106/7 to 13.2@102/3 by going small 16g wheel to big 16g wheel. Now I run the upgraded exhaust housing with small wheel and its much better Imagine what the 20G will do...




That is all..........

 

[EVO85]

*The question begs*...how much power do you want to achieve and is the car only for road use?

AFAIK, the 4G63T conversion into a GSR isn't as straight forward as most people say...

I personally think that you should replace the exhaust with a 3 inch unit and purchase some bigger injectors. For the mods that you have, I think that the 4G93T will be fine with forged pistons but as previously stated, the rods will become the weak link. Even if you were to go for the 4G63T, i'd atleast chuck forgies in if you plan to run 1.2bar with a TD06...

The issue is (like most of us),you'll more than likely get used to the power of the 4G93T and after spending all that money on the 1.8, you'll be kicking yourself for not working from the best base from day one.