Do I need forged internals???

[MISGSR]

93T all the way!

just slap on the 16G with those mods or you're gonna waste the 20G

MR GSR was running with that set up on 17psi for a LONG time with 510's .. plenty of fun

I gots a spare custom ex mani for tD05 for sale never used all new

I wouldn't bother with big custom ex mani and big turbo till i could do it all together with built motor ... a real decent turbo... oh wait .. I'm doing that now ah hahaha

Dave and me are right, everyone else is wrong (sheep)

 

[progkamol]

OK. Thanks everyone for thier opinion. It does help me a lot. Its seems like most of you are suggesting me to go with 4G63T.

Since I have got the car, I would like to stick with the 4G93T for the following reasons:
- I wouldn't want to be competiting in a 2.0L and above class, so 1.8L is the way to go.
- 2.0L conversion seems to be very common mods in the GSR and I hardly see anyone go hard on the 1.8L so I want to give it a shot.
- It may take me longer to look for a 4G63T now and build it up than doing up the 4G93T. And it would be pain in the ass to find one locally.
- 2.0L conversion can actually cost more than doing up the 4G93T. When I tried to break down the costs it shows that unless you got a very good deal from somewhere (which u gonna have to wait for ages) you will ended up paying shit load of money.

With the 2.0L conversion I will need:
- 4G63T 7bolts (EVO) ... found one for $3000
- 4G63T 6bolts (VR4) ... cheapest quote was $1700
- A new ECU ... power fc for $1100
- 4G63T engine mounts ... not yet found $??? (not needed if I manage to get a front cut)
- Drive shaft (if goes with VR4 engine) ... not yet found $???
- Aircond bits & pieces ... saw one before for $260
- Larger injectors 750cc perhaps ... HKS $800a set of 4 comes with fuel rail
- Gaskets etc ... $400 at the max
- Exhaust ... $800 apexi
- Registering, passing pit & government's crap ... $200
- Bolts etc ... $??? (not yet found)

Parts alone that I will need for the 2.0L conversion will be atleast $4000 or more. Could ends up $3500 if lucky. And then add the labour on top of that??? That would be like a $6500+ conversion and those are not included the parts that I have gathered already.

While staying with the 4G93T it would cost me:
- recondition cylinder head ... $600
- rods & pistons ... $???? (not yet found one)
- Gaskets etc ... $400 at the max
- bolts etc ... $??? (not yet found)
- Exhuast ... $800 too I guess

Anyhow. Upgrading the 4G93T I am aiming at$5000 or less. Extra parts that I would need for forged internals I'll be hoping that it would stay around $1500 - $2500 ... labour on top of that I am hoping for less than $5000 all up.

Again, that is just want my opinion is. I wanted to know what other people thinks too. Thats the whole point of the forum. Exchanging ideas and opinions and giving & recieving advices.

Still looking forward for more opinions people. Your comment will be greatly appreciated

 

[progkamol]

By the way I have a TD05 small 16G turbo that came of EVO 1 as well as the TD06 20G ... I decided to go with the 20G because it is in a much better condition with no shaft play while the small 16G have the usual amount of shaft play. I guess I'm gonna have to reconsider which turbo I'll be using now.

Anyhow, what do u guys think about this?? http://cgi.ebay.com.au/H-Beam-Conne..._Vehicles_CarParts_SM?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

 

[VR-4Squid]

By the way I have a TD05 small 16G turbo that came of EVO 1 as well as the TD06 20G ... I decided to go with the 20G because it is in a much better condition with no shaft play while the small 16G have the usual amount of shaft play. I guess I'm gonna have to reconsider which turbo I'll be using now.

take the comp cover off the Evo1 turbo and measure the comp wheel, bet it's a 68mm big16G.

 

[3zercrowd]

I guess I'm gonna have to reconsider which turbo I'll be using now.

Anyhow, what do u guys think about this?? http://cgi.ebay.com.au/H-Beam-Conne..._Vehicles_CarParts_SM?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

TOO Excy!

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI...Track=true&ssPageName=VIP:Watchlink:middle:au

When that buyer has some for sale, buy them.

The other one is maxspeedingrods i think?

As for turbos you cant go past Kando or JAW

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Turbocharger...3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:1|39:1|240:1318

http://myworld.ebay.com.au/jawarehouse/?_trksid=p3911.c0.m198

Cant find a current listing for a 16g but I have emailed him before and they are about the same price as kando.

Good luck!

 

[3zercrowd]

By the way I have a TD05 small 16G turbo that came of EVO 1 as well as the TD06 20G ... I decided to go with the 20G because it is in a much better condition with no shaft play while the small 16G have the usual amount of shaft play. I guess I'm gonna have to reconsider which turbo I'll be using now.

take the comp cover off the Evo1 turbo and measure the comp wheel, bet it's a 64mm big16G.

Small 16G=60.07mm(2.365)
Big 16g =68.07mm(2.680)
E3 Big16g=68.07mm(2.680)
Only diff on Evo3 Big 16g is the Inducer at 48.31mm(1.902)over the Big 16g at 48.05mm(1.892) and wheel made of Inclonel.

Yeah most tagged small 16g's have been modified or slipped throught the factory as big 16g's.
If you get one your lucky!

http://www.stealth316.com/2-turboguide.htm
http://4gtuner.com/site/showthread.php?t=1363

 

[OFFON-4]

OK. Thanks everyone for thier opinion. It does help me a lot. Its seems like most of you are suggesting me to go with 4G63T.

Since I have got the car, I would like to stick with the 4G93T for the following reasons:
- I wouldn't want to be competiting in a 2.0L and above class, so 1.8L is the way to go.
- 2.0L conversion seems to be very common mods in the GSR and I hardly see anyone go hard on the 1.8L so I want to give it a shot.
- It may take me longer to look for a 4G63T now and build it up than doing up the 4G93T. And it would be pain in the ass to find one locally.
- 2.0L conversion can actually cost more than doing up the 4G93T. When I tried to break down the costs it shows that unless you got a very good deal from somewhere (which u gonna have to wait for ages) you will ended up paying shit load of money.

With the 2.0L conversion I will need:
- 4G63T 7bolts (EVO) ... found one for $3000
- 4G63T 6bolts (VR4) ... cheapest quote was $1700
- A new ECU ... power fc for $1100
- 4G63T engine mounts ... not yet found $??? (not needed if I manage to get a front cut)
- Drive shaft (if goes with VR4 engine) ... not yet found $???
- Aircond bits & pieces ... saw one before for $260
- Larger injectors 750cc perhaps ... HKS $800a set of 4 comes with fuel rail
- Gaskets etc ... $400 at the max
- Exhaust ... $800 apexi
- Registering, passing pit & government's crap ... $200
- Bolts etc ... $??? (not yet found)

Parts alone that I will need for the 2.0L conversion will be atleast $4000 or more. Could ends up $3500 if lucky. And then add the labour on top of that??? That would be like a $6500+ conversion and those are not included the parts that I have gathered already.

While staying with the 4G93T it would cost me:
- recondition cylinder head ... $600
- rods & pistons ... $???? (not yet found one)
- Gaskets etc ... $400 at the max
- bolts etc ... $??? (not yet found)
- Exhuast ... $800 too I guess

Anyhow. Upgrading the 4G93T I am aiming at$5000 or less. Extra parts that I would need for forged internals I'll be hoping that it would stay around $1500 - $2500 ... labour on top of that I am hoping for less than $5000 all up.

Again, that is just want my opinion is. I wanted to know what other people thinks too. Thats the whole point of the forum. Exchanging ideas and opinions and giving & recieving advices.

Still looking forward for more opinions people. Your comment will be greatly appreciated

Exactly...its all about giving it a go and it not as expensive these days as it was back in the day.

Competition isnt heavy in 1.8 hehehe

As Bron said we are right LoL bahhhhhhhhhhhh
Accepting abusive via pm

 

[lozza]

some of the comments have been - "2L conversion are so common these days" as if this should disuade people from performing the conversion!? I mean there is good reason to go with a 2L and the decision shouldn't really be based on what is less common, popular or trendy. It should be based on what achieves the nominated goals.

The people who say " stay with 4g93" i ask - have you had your 93 go bang? I have and it wasn't pretty and it was expensive. I kicked myself for not going 2L at the time.

However, another plus of the 2L is the ability to stroke to 2.3L. This is what I am doing because I wanted a street car that could spool a 61mm turbo. Try and do that on the 1.8L. Spool is dismal. On a 20G (06 both sides) which is a 44lb/min turbo this will spool 4500-4600 which is same spool for a GT35R (65lb/min) on a 2.3L. This was my main decision for going 63.

It wasn't so much cost it was STREETABILITY.

Just another consideration

Now also I noticed that you mentioned alot of name brands such as apexi, hks etc. forget all that jap stuff if you are on a budget. there are plenty of alternatives without the pricetag.

Lorry

 

[progkamol]

ok thanks man ... once he have one for sale I'll buy them ...

Do i need new pistons too? or the old one should be alright?

I'll measure my TD05 and see if its a small 16g or big 16g.

I can get my hand on a TD05 that been modify to put 20g compressor. Almost brand new and in good condition. Not sure how much he want but what u guys think bout this? should be better than the TD06 or the same??

 

[progkamol]

Competition isnt heavy in 1.8 hehehe

Very true hehe ... and I'm not gonna lose to CA18DET

 

[progkamol]

Ok ... I found a VR4 4G63T on eBay with only just engine and manifold (no turbo or gear box) ... the mods on the engine is very impressive but he wants $3500+ for that.

The the turbo will need to be put in ... drive shaft ... flywheel ... wiring.

I got the point of why people go with the 2.0L but its not like you cant go mad on the 1.8L. I have considered about putting the 2.0L in at one stage too (when I found the evo 3 2.0L for sale locally) but after I have done that there will be few hundred others car running 2.0L turbo that have similar mods and gaining similar power.

 

[3zercrowd]

some of the comments have been - "2L conversion are so common these days" as if this should disuade people from performing the conversion!? I mean there is good reason to go with a 2L and the decision shouldn't really be based on what is less common, popular or trendy. It should be based on what achieves the nominated goals.

The people who say " stay with 4g93" i ask - have you had your 93 go bang? I have and it wasn't pretty and it was expensive. I kicked myself for not going 2L at the time.

However, another plus of the 2L is the ability to stroke to 2.3L. This is what I am doing because I wanted a street car that could spool a 61mm turbo. Try and do that on the 1.8L. Spool is dismal. On a 20G (06 both sides) which is a 44lb/min turbo this will spool 4500-4600 which is same spool for a GT35R (65lb/min) on a 2.3L. This was my main decision for going 63.

It wasn't so much cost it was STREETABILITY.

Just another consideration

Now also I noticed that you mentioned alot of name brands such as apexi, hks etc. forget all that jap stuff if you are on a budget. there are plenty of alternatives without the pricetag.

Lorry

Everything we have all said has merit.

Your right about how it should meet the persons goal.
So now armed with most of the information he needs he can now make some sort of decision!

Hopefully a Subi ball tearing car!

Hate to burst your bubble about the 61mm turbo having no spool, but the small 16g wheel is 60mm as i wrote above and on my 1.8L it started spooling low and was on full boost by 3500-4000, and maintained 15psi up till redline (although it didnt take it past 7000 often at all! Cant argue with that!
I did have a E3 Big16g (68mm) and spool starts to get affected and starts at about 3000 and full boost at 4500-5000 and at the drags dropped ET(.2-.4 and MPH(2-4mph)
20G is still 68mm but with larger inducer(52.5mm)

 

[OFFON-4]

some of the comments have been - "2L conversion are so common these days" as if this should disuade people from performing the conversion!? I mean there is good reason to go with a 2L and the decision shouldn't really be based on what is less common, popular or trendy. It should be based on what achieves the nominated goals.

The people who say " stay with 4g93" i ask - have you had your 93 go bang? I have and it wasn't pretty and it was expensive. I kicked myself for not going 2L at the time.

However, another plus of the 2L is the ability to stroke to 2.3L. This is what I am doing because I wanted a street car that could spool a 61mm turbo. Try and do that on the 1.8L. Spool is dismal. On a 20G (06 both sides) which is a 44lb/min turbo this will spool 4500-4600 which is same spool for a GT35R (65lb/min) on a 2.3L. This was my main decision for going 63.

It wasn't so much cost it was STREETABILITY.

Just another consideration

Now also I noticed that you mentioned alot of name brands such as apexi, hks etc. forget all that jap stuff if you are on a budget. there are plenty of alternatives without the pricetag.

Lorry

I had my GSr running 15-17 PSi for more than a year and the only thing that let go was the rings and puffing a shit load a smoke.

Not detering people from going 63, its just commonly performed and people make it out that building a 93 is going to set you back 100k lol depends how hard you go a guess.

My 2cents

 

[VR-4Squid]

Small 16G=60.07mm(2.365)
Big 16g =68.07mm(2.680)
E3 Big16g=68.07mm(2.680)
Only diff on Evo3 Big 16g is the Inducer at 48.31mm(1.902)over the Big 16g at 48.05mm(1.892) and wheel made of Inclonel.

Yeah most tagged small 16g's have been modified or slipped throught the factory as big 16g's.
If you get one your lucky!

http://www.stealth316.com/2-turboguide.htm
http://4gtuner.com/site/showthread.php?t=1363

huh, I'm sure I typed 68mm......

I'm yet to see a td05 off an evo with a small16G comp (incl pictures thereof)

 

[youda]

My GSR has run a tdo5 14b for whole year on 17-20psi without blowing up. This is a motor that has done 250,000km without a rebuild. The killer is not the boost but how the motor is treated. A good combination of mods to back up the boost levels help reduce chance of motor exploding. things like not reving car past 7000rpm help, a decent intercooler and the fuel mods to suit.
My self running a 12.9 and 3zercrowd running a 12.55 are proof that these motors can handle what u dish out as long as it is done carefully.

 

[lozza]

Hate to burst your bubble about the 61mm turbo having no spool, but the small 16g wheel is 60mm as i wrote above and on my 1.8L it started spooling low and was on full boost by 3500-4000, and maintained 15psi up till redline (although it didnt take it past 7000 often at all! Cant argue with that!
I did have a E3 Big16g (68mm) and spool starts to get affected and starts at about 3000 and full boost at 4500-5000 and at the drags dropped ET(.2-.4 and MPH(2-4mph)
20G is still 68mm but with larger inducer(52.5mm)

I was quoting 61mm INDUCER!!! The exducer for the turbo I am quoting is 82mm (hence the 65lb/min flow rate)

Any motor can spool a 16G, they are that good (hence why subi used them for some WRX's)

 

[progkamol]

huh, I'm sure I typed 68mm......

I'm yet to see a td05 off an evo with a small16G comp (incl pictures thereof)

I'll take a pic and show u the TD05H I got from my mate black EVO 1 ... I'm not sure myself too is it a big 16G or small 16G ...

 

[brisvr4]

If it is this one it isn't a VR4 motor by the looks of it.
Thats an Evo manifold and the front mount is on the gearbox not the motor.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Mitsubishi-vr4-4g63-engine_W0QQitemZ300284867011QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Car_Parts_Accessories?hash=item300284867011&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318

 

[3zercrowd]

I was quoting 61mm INDUCER!!! The exducer for the turbo I am quoting is 82mm (hence the 65lb/min flow rate)

You never specified inducer is all.....

I quote comp wheel sizes with their overall diameter (exducer)

61.4mm/82mm inducer/exducer is a garrett GT3582R and is rated at 600HP@60LB/min.

POSSIBLY up to 650HP MAX with the 1.06Rear A/R but not if your planning to run the .86A/R.

The compressor map from garrett runs 65% efficiency at 60LB/min so with the 1.06A/R the turbo will be out of its efficiency range and basically blowing hot air.

The 3582R will be good on the 2.3L with the .82rear and we await your own separate build thread


As for the small16g 01460 60mm I havn't PERSONALLY seen one but I have a 5200 aftermarket US small 16g with the 34mm flapper rear and i'm sure they do exist out there somewhere

 

[GSRWRC]

Spool is dismal. On a 20G (06 both sides) which is a 44lb/min turbo this will spool 4500-4600 which is same spool for a GT35R (65lb/min) on a 2.3L. This was my main decision for going 63.

It wasn't so much cost it was STREETABILITY.

Something was wrong with your setup then, I was getting full boost (17.5psi) by 3800rpm with a full 7cm TD05 big 16G. I expect the hybrid 20G I have built for my current engine to be similar.
If your idea was streetability, then bolting on a full TD06H (by saying '06 both sides' I assume you mean you had a TD06H exhaust wheel) was stupid.