E38A rs gearset into E39A box

[croket]

Hey guys ive got a mate who has stripped 1st gear in his box and i have a rs gearset with stripped 3rd gear

My question is can we use the rs first gear in his box or use his third gear on the rs set and chuck that in his box ?

Not sure if with the rs gearset would the diff ratios need to be changed ?

Also what would a rs gearset be worth ?
Thanks

 

[brisvr4]

Pretty much all the ratios are different.
Check out VFAQ and compare the ratios in the drivetrain section.
You could put a complete rs gear set into a stock box without needing to change the final drive though.

 

[croket]

that would be good if the rs set was ok but its got stripped 3rd ill have a look on this VFAQ thing and see if they can be swapped in anyway
cheers mate

 

[EVO-00X]

Problem is if the RS gearbox has stripped 3rd gear then the centre diff teeth and intermediate shaft teeth are rooted too. Bits will be everywhere in that box and probably damaged the output shaft and crownwheel too.
Im not too clued up with the actual 4-letter chassis names of the GVR4 E38A and E39A's.
I know there were differences with gear ratios as most GVR4's had interchangeable gears between themselves but one model (possibly EVO 0) had same 1st gear as the Evo 1.

E38A SNP4 = what model was that known as?
E39A came out as a SNGM, SNPF, SNPF4, SNXM chassis = Can someone advise what these models were natively called? RS, EVO 0, Eterna, Monte Carlo etc???

Either box will have:
37 tooth first gear cog mated to 13 tooth first gear input shaft = 2.846 = What most GVR4's have.
36 tooth first gear cog mated to 14 tooth first gear input shaft = 2.571 = Same ratio as EVO 1 first gear.

 

[brisvr4]

Rob the RS box has pretty much all the same ratios as an E1.
It's the only box that is different.
From memory SNPF4 is a stock vr4

 

[EVO-00X]

Ah OK, I thought the E38A SNPF4 is the EVO 0? That's the RS model?

 

[brisvr4]

I'll have to check!

 

[brisvr4]

Hmm, the RS sales brochure does show it as a SNFP.
AND it shows the RS as having both sets of gear ratios as options...

 

[EVO-00X]

So does that mean the E38A RS has the ratios on the left side, and the E39A has the ratios on the right side of the columns?

Also found this during the New Zealand gearbox code studies they had on NZMCC a while back.

[SIZE=10pt]W5M33-2-NQBK 91-2 Galant VR4 up to 4/92 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]W5M33-2-NQBM 92 Galant VR4 mfg 5/92 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]W5M33-2-WPVF Galant VR4 E84A[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]W5M33-2-WQNK Galant VR4 EVO non lsd (3.909 ratio)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]W5M33-2-WQFK Galant VR4 EVO RS with lsd 3.909 [/SIZE]

[SIZE=8pt]Galant Evo RS 2.0DOHC/MPI/AWD E38A SNPF4 500 21060A M/T & Transfer Assy MD995445 KM225-1-PH N=58T MD726425 88021 to 89023 Standard front diff 3.545 Clutch LSD MB185307
Galant Evo RS 2.0DOHC/MPI/AWD E38A SNPF4 500 21060A M/T & Transfer Assy MD995571 W5M33-2-NPGH N=58T MD726425 89031 to 89093 Standard front diff 3.545 Clutch LSD MB185307
Galant Evo RS 2.0DOHC/MPI/AWD E38A SNPF4 500 21060A M/T & Transfer Assy MD995570 W5M33-2-WPGH N=64T MD733279 89031 to 89093 Standard front diff 3.909 Clutch LSD MB185313
Galant Evo RS 2.0DOHC/MPI/AWD E38A SNPF4 500 21060A M/T & Transfer Assy MD995598 W5M33-2-WQGK N=64T MD733279 89101 to 90073 Standard front diff 3.909 Clutch LSD MB185313
Galant Evo RS 2.0DOHC/MPI/AWD E38A SNPF4 500 21060A M/T & Transfer Assy MD995620 W5M33-2-WQWK N=64T MD737530 89101 to 90073 Front LSD Limited Slip Differential 3.909 Clutch LSD MB185313
Galant Evo RS 2.0DOHC/MPI/AWD E38A SNPF4 500 21060A M/T & Transfer Assy MD995730 W5M33-2-WQYK N=64T MD733279 90081 to 92033 Standard front diff 3.909 Clutch LSD MB860149
Galant Evo RS 2.0DOHC/MPI/AWD E38A SNPF4 500 21060A M/T & Transfer Assy MD995731 W5M33-2-WQFK N=64T MD737530 90081 to 92033 Front LSD Limited Slip Differential 3.909 Clutch LSD MB860149

US spec TEL, 90 -> _w5m332np__, e.g. kw5m332npzs (unk casing #);
_w5m332npzs, mh8095
US spec TEL, 91 -> _w5m332np__, e.g. kw5m332npxv (unk casing #
US spec GVR4, 91 -> _w5m332nq__, e.g. _w5m332nqbm, kx9091
JDM (Aus) GVR4, type unk -> _w5m332nq__, e.g. _w5m332nqzk (unk casing#)
JDM (Aus) GVR4, 91 -> _w5m332nq__, e.g. _w5m332nqzk, Lh6282
JDM GVR4, year unk -> _w5m332nq__, e.g. _w5m332nqzk, ma6822
JDM (Aus) GVR4 Evo, year unk -> c51ph, e.g. c51ph, ?x9766
JDM GVR4, year unk -> c51ph, e.g. c51ph, hL4285; c51ph, sd7177
unk spec GVR4 RS, year unk -> _w5m332wq__, e.g. _w5m332wqge, qn6866;
unk origin (E39 VR4 written on it) -> _w5m332nr__, e.g._w5m332nrxc, ex6172
JDM ZR4, 89 -> c51ph, e.g. c51ph, hk9717
JDM ZR4, 88 -> c51ph, e.g. c51ph, cL0845
US TEL 1G 3/89 - 6/90 (shift link) -> w5m332npzs
US TEL 1G 6/90 - 2/94 -> w5m332npxv
US TEL 2G 3/94 - 6/96 -> w5m332npzt
US TEL 2G 7/96 and up -> w5m332muzt
US spec GVR4 to 4/92 -> w5m332nqbk
US spec GVR4 5/92 and up -> w5m332nqbm
US Galant GSX AWD non-turbo 6/89-5/90 -> w5m312vqzh
US Galant GSX AWD non-turbo 6/90-5/92 -> w5m312vqbk[/SIZE]

 

[EVO-00X]

Croket, what are the two gearbox codes you are enquiring about?

 

[brisvr4]

It does Rob.

 

[croket]

The gearset i have is WQNK that has stripped 3rd gear the thought was use that gearset with 3rd gear from a NQBK box which has stripped the teeth on 1st gear.

Boxes are thin on the ground in WA i never wanted to sell my WQNK gearset but my mate needs his box fixed , what would the gearset be worth ?

 

[EVO-00X]

[SIZE=10pt]W5M33-2-WQNK Galant VR4 EVO non LSD (For use with 1.074 transfer case and 3.909 rear diff ratio)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]W5M33-2-NQBK 91-2 Galant VR4 up to 4/92.(For use with 1.09 transfer case and 3.545 rear diff ratio)[/SIZE]

OK, the WQNK is the E38A VR4 RS 'EVO 0' gearbox with the EVO 1 type gear ratios. It'll have a different input shaft, so the other VR4 gearbox first gear wont mate up to it anyway.
Your other option to use the 3rd gear from the NQBK gearbox and put it into the WQNK gearbox that stripped 3rd. But as mentioned previously, if 3rd gear is stripped, so too will be the 3rd intermediate and centre diff.

So my advice would be to (purely from a theoretical point of view as I haven't actually had both gearboxes in front of me to check if their intermediate shafts are identical - but chances are they shared the same intermediate shafts amongst all GVR4's, much like GSR share the same intermediate shafts as EVO I-III):

Anyhow:

Open WQNK gearbox
1. Pull down the damaged intermediate shaft (because it will be damaged for sure at 3rd gear intermediate).
2. When all the gears are removed from the intermediate shaft, put them aside for the time being.
3. Pull down the input shaft and remove the damaged 3rd gear cog.
4. Remove the damaged centre diff (will have damaged teeth for sure)

Open NQBK gearbox
1. Remove all the gears off the good intermediate shaft.
2. Put all the gears from WQNK intermediate shaft onto the NQBK intermediate shaft. Now you have a good complete intermediate shaft ready for the WQNK gearbox.
3. Pull down the input shaft. Remove the good 3rd gear from the NQBK input shaft and put it on the WQNK input shaft. Now you will have a complete input shaft for the WQNK gearbox.
4. Put the good centre diff from the NQBK gearbox into the WQNK gearbox. This will ensure it mates up properly to the new 3rd gear and the intermediate shaft.

If their gear shift fork and selector hub sizes are different, then throw everything I just said above out the window lol

The easiest and cheapest way to get out of it would be to purchase a 1st gear cog for the NQBK gearbox, provided that its input shaft hasn't been damaged as a result of killing first gear.
For that you will need to open it up and double check it has 37 teeth.
If so, there are 2 part numbers associated with it. I hate GVR4 boxes as there were so many variables lol


OK, I found the attached on the internet. At least that info will clear some things up for me in future
So its the E38A RS (aka EVO 0) that came out with the EVO 1 gear ratios only.

 

[croket]

this is all i have from the rs box , im not very savy in gearboxes hahahaha

So basicly my idea was to sell him these gears to use in some way to fix his NQBK box , i just wanted to do some asking and researching rather than just sell them on the idea it might work for him

 

[MDK87]

How did that ^ happen croket?

 

[croket]

previous owner did it while at the drags , i bought half a gearbox from him and these came with it. I had to replace my bellhousing as it cracked

 

[blackvr]

Pretty sure you will find the intermediate shafts will be different. I dont reckon there is much interchangeability between the two. Which part of 1st gear stripped ?? Both ? Input shaft gear ..or intermediate shaft gear or both? I have a good selection of stock VR4 box parts and may be able to help with a first gear . Take a couple of photos of the damaged gears ?

 

[EVO-00X]

Croket, your pics you posted are a massive help and I compared them to gears as found in an EVO 1 gearbox.
I looked at the notches on the first gear teeth of your photos, plus intermediate shaft and they are identical to that found in an EVO 1 gearbox box.
This confirms what Blackvr has said, the intermediate shafts are different between E38A GVR4 RS (EVO 0) and a normal GVR4.
So unfortunately you cant help him out with your RS gearbox parts mate
See pic.

 

[croket]

Im just going on what ive been told about the first gear in the other box , i guess the owner will have to pull it out and strip it down to check it out.

He has told me its lost all drive in first gear and has steel in the oil

 

[EVO-00X]

Yeah when they break teeth there's going to be damage elsewhere guaranteed.
Sometimes you're lucky with minimal parts effected, but most times you find chipped teeth on several other gears including the crownwheel and pinion, centre diff and ruined bearings.
Its a gamble against the odds when buying 2nd hand damaged gearboxes unfortunately.
That's why they're worth sweet f*k all IMO when they haven't been disassembled and checked.
I hope you guys sort it out and keep your parts handy for the future (just in case you need them).