Evo 3 Intake Manifold - How much power is it good for?

[runuts]

Ok, having never experimented with the E3 engine at extreme levels before(only vr4's), I'm a bit in the air about the flow capability of the intake manifold.

I know people have run well into the 10's with the stock manifold, but what i am trying to decide, is what pro's/con's there are of changing to a quality sheet metal intake.

I've been getting some mixed reactions from my contacts in the US, as they have never had the E3 intake, so there hp increases are against a stock 2g intake.

Anyone here, have any knowledge on this.

I pretty much dont want to get it running, and then find it to be a bottleneck. Would rather fix it now.

Options at present are the Magnus Manifold, JM Fabrications Manifold, or something locally like the ARE one, or the one Chris Meek is selling.

And lastly, if anyone has had experience with any of these. Did it affect midrange power.

I'm aiming for a usable powerband of between 4500-9000rpm.

 

[yelevo]

manifold

Do some flow bench testing

 

[Entaran]

Nothing beats a flowbench. But as far as I'm aware unless you're pushing the BRIGHTER side of 400 KW (about 470 @ fly) you won't need a sheetmetal manifold.

 

[runuts]

Well I intend on going well beyond 470hp. (BTW 400kw, is well over 470hp, more like 530ish)

 

[Entaran]

Well I intend on going well beyond 470hp. (BTW 400kw, is well over 470hp, more like 530ish)

In an AWD Drivetrain, specifically ours. 400 KW at wheels is about equal to 470 KW at fly. Or around 600 hp.

There are 800hp drag vr4's in the states running ASpec manifolds. The evo3 manifold however has smaller ports so might require some portwork. They extrude hone the manifold, matchport it and get a 63mm throttle body boring.

 

[runuts]

See, here is the issue. I know the power can be made with the stock manifold, extrude honed etc. What im trying to find is real data, relating the power vs boost scenario.

What I'm trying to achieve is the most usable power on pump fuel. If changing to a sheet metal manifold allows more power at a lower boost pressure, then this would be a much better solution for my application. (and obviously allow more power again, once i put c16 in)

 

[Entaran]

Unfortunately I think you'll find you're the only person to try this or one of few (the others unpublicised). Looks like you'll be making the data.

 

[runuts]

Unfortunately I think you'll find you're the only person to try this or one of few (the others unpublicised). Looks like you'll be making the data.

Certainly appears this way. I've contacted a few of the reputable manifold fabricators/designers on these engines. Just gathering info to make the most informed decisions.

People in contact thus far

ARE (Qld, Australi)
JM Fabrications (US based)
Magnus Motorsports (US based)

I'm aware of the manifold Chris Meek has for sale currently, but without any data on it, its too much of a risk to be a guniea pig.

Atm, I'm swaying towards either the JM or the Magnus. Mind you, Richard from ARE was quite helpful today, and will have more thorough info regarding their new manifold on monday.

I'll post my results once I've I get it tuned etc, so people in this predicament dont have to do any guesswork.

 

[Entaran]

I work on a simple principle. I keep my money in Australia wherever possible. From what I've seen in a VARIETY of industries, the quality of manufacturing here is second to none. Australian goods and services are absolutely top quality, but then you pay for it too.

 

[runuts]

I work on a simple principle. I keep my money in Australia wherever possible. From what I've seen in a VARIETY of industries, the quality of manufacturing here is second to none. Australian goods and services are absolutely top quality, but then you pay for it too.

While I would like to do the same, keeping my money in Australia where possible. I'm also realistic. As much as Australia can, where can being the operative word produce some of the highest quality products in the world, they rarely do. I come from an engineering background, and to be honest, we rate very poorly in terms of standards and repeatable quality control in the manufacturing industry.
(There are some exceptions of course, but as a whole, it is very rare that I purchase something, and then leave it as is due to it not being to a higher enough quality. ie. bought a dump pipe for my old td05, from a reputable company, yet it still required the welds on the inside to be smoothed off. To me, this should be done prior to shipping, or better still, welded in such a manner to not get the spatter, rough surface on the inside. This is what sets a good company standard, from a great one.)

If I could find an Australian manufactured product, that will do what I'm after, I would jump at it. But as previously mentioned, I have no desire or time to be a guinea pig on a test product. I want something that has results, that will meet my requirements. If I had the time, I'd develop my own manifold, but I simply do not.

 

[Rockabilly]

runnuts I brought an evo inlet mani for my vr4. I will be filling/raising the
head to match the mani. I was going to mod the mani, but Chris told me
that keeping the flow up high in the head is proven to flow faster by bench
testing. This will also give quicker responce time. I dunno if it will suit your
hp you're after tho. I'm trying to get spool time early for street rather than
top end power. Other side is a tube exh mani (i'm making now) & a 63 to
76 dump I made & put on with 76 right through. Chris recomends a Hyundi
head. I'm welding wedges in the floor of my spare head.

 

[runuts]

runnuts I brought an evo inlet mani for my vr4. I will be filling/raising the
head to match the mani. I was going to mod the mani, but Chris told me
that keeping the flow up high in the head is proven to flow faster by bench
testing. This will also give quicker responce time. I dunno if it will suit your
hp you're after tho. I'm trying to get spool time early for street rather than
top end power. Other side is a tube exh mani (i'm making now) & a 63 to
76 dump I made & put on with 76 right through. Chris recomends a Hyundi
head. I'm welding wedges in the floor of my spare head.

Thanks for the info. My car is actually a genuine evo, with the smaller ports etc. Mind you it has now been ported. I'm running a much larger turbo than stock, so anticipate later spool time. My main concern is the stock e3 manifold restricting hp, and how much it restricts. Doesnt bother me if its very minor, as it has quite alot of midrange, but if its a large restriction, I see the need for a custom manifold.

 

[Rockabilly]

10's have been made with the small port inlet evo head & mani.
Chris has always told me that vr4 heads are actualy too big on the
inlet port side compared to the exh side. Jap dual runner inlet mani's
& their ecu to suit, makes the inlet run a bit more eficiently. Our aus
single runner inlet mani's suit mid to top end more than low rpm's
I'm only realy changing to the smaller evo inlet mani & filling the head
to bring the spool time closer to match my standard auto box stall
convertor (which is 2,500 rpm)
I personaly like the runner lengths on the evo inlet mani also.
runuts if you have a better than standard dump & good exh, the evo
inlet mani will flow enough I think. As far as bench test proof goes, I can't
prove what I'm saying. I just think if 10's are made with an evo inlet mani,
then a bloody hell of a lot of air was passing through it to get 10's.
So why fix anything that's not broke ;]

 

[runuts]

10's have been made with the small port inlet evo head & mani.
Chris has always told me that vr4 heads are actualy too big on the
inlet port side compared to the exh side. Jap dual runner inlet mani's
& their ecu to suit, makes the inlet run a bit more eficiently. Our aus
single runner inlet mani's suit mid to top end more than low rpm's
I'm only realy changing to the smaller evo inlet mani & filling the head
to bring the spool time closer to match my standard auto box stall
convertor (which is 2,500 rpm)
I personaly like the runner lengths on the evo inlet mani also.
runuts if you have a better than standard dump & good exh, the evo
inlet mani will flow enough I think. As far as bench test proof goes, I can't
prove what I'm saying. I just think if 10's are made with an evo inlet mani,
then a bloody hell of a lot of air was passing through it to get 10's.
So why fix anything that's not broke ;]

I agree with what you are saying. I may actually just run an extrude honed E3 inlet manifold. See how it goes. If I find it to be restricting power up high, well more than I want it too, I will then change it. mmmm decisions decisions.

And of the EVO's that have run 10's with the head/manifold... the question is did they do it on pump fuel. I have no doubt, with C16 I could acheive a 10 second pass. But I would rather be able to do it on PULP.

 

[runuts]

I've now found the exact details and manifold required for my application. Thanks for the input everyone. Will post pics, dyno readouts asap. This has now become very interesting.