Injector upgrade

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So I'm in dire need of new injectors for my 4G61 (naturally aspirated) and 1.6lt injectors are hard to come by. I figure now is probably the perfect time to look at upgrade options. I have access to 2.0lt injectors out of either Hyundai or Mitsubishi 4G63s. Has anyone played around with putting them on the 4G61s? Can they handle the extra fuel with a factory ECU or does it need to be replaced/chipped?
 
So I'm in dire need of new injectors for my 4G61 (naturally aspirated) and 1.6lt injectors are hard to come by. I figure now is probably the perfect time to look at upgrade options. I have access to 2.0lt injectors out of either Hyundai or Mitsubishi 4G63s. Has anyone played around with putting them on the 4G61s? Can they handle the extra fuel with a factory ECU or does it need to be replaced/chipped?

You can use the vr4 ecu but you'll need to swap over the maf sensor as well tho it'll run rich
 
use the Galant GSR ECU 2LT DOHC with the 380cc stock injectors (i think they are 380? lol)
 
ECU and air flow meter change makes things a bit more difficult. I'll have to check the Sonata afm in the morning and see if thats the same. I'm guessing the ECU out of that is not going to work (could anyone confirm that?)
 
I have injectors from my old 4g61 which i've converted to vr4 motor - I dont need them. If your keen for them pm me.

Have you tried getting your injectors cleaned?
 
i sure the sonata afm is the same as the vr4 one, they certainly look the same and the plug is the same. i never looked at the sonata ecu, but i reckon it would be the same as well because all the other sensors are the same. i using a sonata tb on my 4g93, come to think of it, it has the 93 isc and cold idle thing as well bolted to the sonata tb with no problems
 
I have injectors from my old 4g61 which i've converted to vr4 motor - I dont need them. If your keen for them pm me.

Have you tried getting your injectors cleaned?

Yes, they were cleaned only about 400kms and one rally sprint ago. The workshop that did it told me they had huge problems doing it (had to go through the cleaner 4 times) so I figured I was going to need new ones not long after. After what I had to do to clean the whole fuel system out, I'm really not surprised.

I've really got my heart set on 2.0lt ones though for a bit more go. There's been a steep rise in the number of hairdryers hanging off the side of engines around here lately...
 
How is adding 2L injectors going to give you car some more go? If they are just larger they will over fuel the car and it'll run rich.
Are they the same flow rate but a twin spray not single spray design? Then there would be a point as they should atomize the fuel better.

If you go higher flowing injectors you need to get the ecu chipped or tuned for it, unless you can find an afm that reads the same % under what you injectors are flowing over, compared to stock, or match the injectors, afm and a new ecu that can run that motor.
 
4G61 injectors are 210cc and the 4G63 that you want to put in are 240cc. Not a big difference really and you would probably get away at light loads while its is in closed loop(still not ideal solution) but would deffinitely run a little richer at full throttle and you dont want that. Its best if you just find 4g61 injectors. Theres plenty of guys on gsrcyborgclub.com that can help you out ;)
 
4G61 injectors are 210cc and the 4G63 that you want to put in are 240cc. Not a big difference really and you would probably get away at light loads while its is in closed loop(still not ideal solution) but would deffinitely run a little richer at full throttle and you dont want that.

But wouldnt the change of airflow meter and ECU largely eliminate the potential for over-fuelling? Obviously the point here is to get more fuel in without it being too rich that things start going downhill.

In any case it looks like I'll just be going ahead and trying it out. If it doesnt work out I guess the 2.0lt is going in. It was going to go in at some point anyway, but I was hoping to not have to miss an event.
 
Im not seeing your logic here, you want to get more fuel in, but not be too rich. Bigger injectors are not going to give you any more power, if you go richer on the NA motor it'll likely loose power.
Most stock ecu tunes can gain power from being leaned out a bit with a SAFC, if you want to be a bit old school and just touch the tune up a bit. (checking afr's wiht a wide band or on a dyno of course)
I think you better off just getting the same injectors second hand, then focuss on getting more airflow into the motor or exhaust upgrades. You should be able to pick up a set for under 100bucks easy.

What actually done to the car, given you havent said its worked, im assuming its pretty stock with maybe an exhaust and cold air induction, that level of mods.
 
The car is a rally import that has been in hiding for a very long time, nobody knows exactly what has been done but I'm fairly sure it is a stock motor. What I do know is that the car has always seemed to run too lean judging by spark plugs and exhaust temperature (60 seconds of moderate driving on a reconnaissance lap was enough to light a fire underneath the car, despite heat shielding). It also doesn't seem to have as much go as it should have, based on factory figures. I figure giving it more fuel is worth at least a shot, even if only to reduce temperature. I would rather avoid forking out on injectors when I have some perfectly good 2.0lt ones in hand.
 
But wouldnt the change of airflow meter and ECU largely eliminate the potential for over-fuelling? Obviously the point here is to get more fuel in without it being too rich that things start going downhill.In any case it looks like I'll just be going ahead and trying it out. If it doesnt work out I guess the 2.0lt is going in. It was going to go in at some point anyway, but I was hoping to not have to miss an event.

If you get matching ecu, afm and injectors such as from GSR Galant, yes it would be fine fuel wise but you would not gain any power which would then be waste of money and time considering standard setup does the same. Putting just bigger injectors will definitely enrich your afr and reduce power output because ecu remains mapped for 210cc injectors instead of 240cc which is then just a waste of time again. The only way to put more fuel in and having the same afr is to get more air in as well, theres no other way. And ecu will put more fuel in for you when it sees more airflow. So your job should only be to get that engine to breathe better.

The standard ecu is mapped pretty well, has enough of timing(around 20 degrees in top end) the afr is around 13:1 all the way to 6000rpm and then it starts dropping towards 12:1. Even after few intake and exhaust changes it still remained the same but power output increased. I have played with my 4g61 for a while, I've tried few tricks here and there, bothered my brother many times to put it on dyno and see what works and what doesnt, saw what its capable of and then just did 63t conversion.

Heres couple of dyno graphs for you.
2011-08-26 00.35.54.jpg 2011-08-26 00.36.26.jpg

The first graph is of a freshly rebuilt 4g61 with everything else standard, 3-4 more degrees of timing was added from what is suggested by mitsi and 98oct fuel was used.

The second graph, unsure exactly of what the blue one is, but the red one had k&n filter, 60mm throttle body, extractors and 2in exhaust along with more timing and 98 fuel and it made what it made. My next step was to put some cams in but that was too much money for not so much power increase.

Ecmlink would work in your ecu but the problem is you cant run anything smaller then 450cc injectors with ecmlink. You could get single board vr4 ecu, get it socketed and play with tunerpro. With tunerpro definitions you can make changes for any size injectors and/or any mitsi airflow meter as long as you know their compensation values. Enable launch control, install knock sensor now that ecu supports it and play with many other features it provides. Only downside, it can be time consuming but with NA setup there is not much it needs a change other then a little bit in a top end. Another thing you could do that was on my to do list, put a dual runner intake manifold from a jspec vr4 galant to improve its midrange as they are flat a bit. For that you need some rpm related switch, or just wire it in to vr4 ecu if you end up using it. Another good alternative to do some of the above is haltech interceptor. These are some of the things you might want to look into if you want to get serious with it.

Anyway, I got a little carried away but hopefully you'll find at least something interesting and learn from it. And please do your self and your car a favour and replace your injectors with 4g61 items otherwise you'll just ruin the power and fuel economy unless you're going to take some action in engine management department. Yours were probably clogged up badly if it took 4 attempts to get them cleaned. Replace your fuel filter if you havent already done so and inspect your fuel tank as I've seen few of them having corroded tanks causing the injectors to clog up.

oh and dont play with intake pipe or airbox, just leave it alone ;)

thats just my 2c lol
 
i have some good stock 4g61 injectors i can do cheap to help the cause, im not going to get started in this convo!
 
i have some good stock 4g61 injectors i can do cheap to help the cause, im not going to get started in this convo!
Buy theses stock replacement injectors and be done with it, you dont need to tune the car and can spend money on other mods, that will give you more power, rather than bogg the car down rich. You only need to go bigger if your injector duty cycles are getting maxed out like 90%. And since there is not talk of tuning or checking the duty cycles you not at that stage yet on a pretty stock setup. Its wasted effort and money upgrading if you dont need it.
 

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