oil squirters.

[youda]

I am in the process of preping a 4g93t to give Dane (3zercrowd ) a run for his money. while i've got the engine out of the car i know 4g93t have a comon problem of spinning main bearings at high rpm. A few people have told be this is because of low oil preassure and best remedy is to remove the oil squirters. My question is what is this going to do long term to the piston/rods/ assembly area?
i know that people have straight up turbo'd proton satria GTI's and that these do not have oil squirters but have not herd if this has led to part failures.
In the end should i do this or not. im not worried if the engine only lasts a year. (its already done 250, 000km). but i would like it to last a few months of punishing driving.

and please no remarks about throwing in a 4g63.lol.

 

[mrcyborg]

from what i know of the oil squirters one of there main functions is to help cool the piston itself. i know a lot of drag engines have them removed for both oil pressure and the fact in extreme loads like drag racing it can give inconsistant temps accross the piston, which is another reason to remove them. i dont see it being a problem if you are looking to punish the motor and not expect it to last normal service lengths.

can the mitsi oil pumps be shimmed to increase pressure? i know many others can be.

 

[GSRWRC]

Ive removed the squirters for the same reasons you've mentioned (oil pressure), but I feel I can get away with it because the pistons are forged so can take a bit more heat. The oil thrown off the crank should be enough to keep them cooled.

I'd be worried about cracked pistons if they were stockers.

Replace the bearings with ACL race series stuff, GOOD oil (Motul 300v) and change it regularly (<5000kms).

 

[blackvr]

Yes, the oil pump relief valve can be shimmed up to increase pressure... but it obviously cant change the flow output ( which is more critical when the oil gets hot).

I'm building a couple of high comp ( 10:1) competition engines running on E85. They have been built into NA blocks without the oil squirters... I will let you know down the track how the
piston hardness goes from not being cooled by oil sqirters... My feeling is that the lower combustion temperature of E85 fuel will help balance high compression and high boost ( 23psi). I'm not sure
it will be an issue, as there are plenty of factory turbo motors not running squirters that live with high output .

 

[youda]

the engine has run 8000rpm shifts on a tdo5 14b running 18psi. i had it like that for at least 20,000km. however I've put the lastability of the car down to using a slightly thicker oil, 15w penrite semi synthetic blend and changing oil and filter every 5000km. Its run fine like that however i plan to strap a tdo5 20g turbo on running 20-22 psi.

The motor is out and on the bench under my house. i have the head off to check out the condition of the bores pistons and such. so far all seems good. (i also need to clean up the oil leaks all over the motor). Part of this is ripping off the sump and gooing it all up. while i have the bottom open i thought i would look at anything to give me some lastability higher in the rev range. keeping in mind i need to use all oem parts ie pistons, rods, bearings, cams. bolt on mods only.

Any other ideas would help as i plan to have the motor back in the car before winter to run down the drags.

 

[Rockabilly]

Removing the balance shafts & rotating the bearings to block the oil holes will raise the oil presure.
For $40 each, I had my pistons ceramic coated on top & teflon on the sides < No piston temp to worry about.
Also had the combustion chambers, exh ports (after a very course porting job) & all valves ceramic coated < Even less temp to worry about.
I say no squirters.
Cheers !

 

[youda]

Removing the balance shafts & rotating the bearings to block the oil holes will raise the oil presure.
For $40 each, I had my pistons ceramic coated on top & teflon on the sides < No piston temp to worry about.
Also had the combustion chambers, exh ports (after a very course porting job) & all valves ceramic coated < Even less temp to worry about.
I say no squirters.
Cheers !

to remove balance shafts is that all i have to do or is there more to it?

 

[blackvr]

Ive removed the squirters for the same reasons you've mentioned (oil pressure), but I feel I can get away with it because the pistons are forged so can take a bit more heat. The oil thrown off the crank should be enough to keep them cooled.

I'd be worried about cracked pistons if they were stockers.

Replace the bearings with ACL race series stuff, GOOD oil (Motul 300v) and change it regularly (<5000kms).

I think you are under rating stock pistons. They are very , very good pistons.... almost as good as forged if not the equal of . Steve Knight here in Adelaide ran std pistons
in his Improved production early Lancer/VR4 engined race car for years . That was a leading race car at the time, and with the mandated 36mm restrictor, ran without a wastegate and maxxed at
28 psi. It NEVER had any piston issues...If the tune is good... the engine lives !! If you look at the design they are very good. I'm about to run up some stock NA pistons in my E85 fuelled rally car... again no wastegate, 34 mm restrictor and peaking at 24 psi boost. I'm not using squirters... I will keep you in the loop as to reliability. It makes for a very cheap engine at the moment...

 

[youda]

Forget my last, it appears the 4g93t has no balance shafts.

 

[86psi]

if u can throw some arp rod bolts in while the sump is off it deffinatly cant hurt

 

[GSRWRC]

I think you are under rating stock pistons. They are very , very good pistons.... almost as good as forged if not the equal of . Steve Knight here in Adelaide ran std pistons
in his Improved production early Lancer/VR4 engined race car for years . That was a leading race car at the time, and with the mandated 36mm restrictor, ran without a wastegate and maxxed at
28 psi. It NEVER had any piston issues...If the tune is good... the engine lives !! If you look at the design they are very good. I'm about to run up some stock NA pistons in my E85 fuelled rally car... again no wastegate, 34 mm restrictor and peaking at 24 psi boost. I'm not using squirters... I will keep you in the loop as to reliability. It makes for a very cheap engine at the moment...

All very well and good, but we are talking 4G93Ts here.
Stock 4G63 pistons are better for a multitude of reasons, some of which are due to the internal geometry of the 2L, different load, and a much, much better combustion chamber design than whats in the 4G93T. This is why 4G63s have a reputation for 400hp and beyond on 'stock' bottom ends, whereas when you approach 300hp in a 4G93 you can expect failure.

I killed the ringlands on 3 pistons on one of my 4G93Ts. Yes from Det (minor Det too), but it shows they certainly aren't bulletproof. Yes I know you'll kill ANY piston with enough detonation. Remove the oil squirters - lack of cooling increases the heat, which in turn increases the chance of detonation. I just don't like the idea of sacrificing reliability for the bearings without improving the chances for the pistons to survive at the same time. Personally I think the 4G93T pistons are overrated because rods and bearings tend to fly apart in these engines before the piston gets a chance to fail :lol:
E85 is a different story of course as the fuel has it's own cooling properties, I was running garden variety BP Ultimate in that particular engine.

 

[DOUGMO]

on a stock piston i would leave them in for the above reasons.

but i would highly reccomend replacing the check valves with brand new ones.

 

[youda]

check valve are you talking the one for the oil pump?

 

[DOUGMO]

the bolts that actually hold the squirter are a metering valve, change them with new genuine ones to be safe

 

[youda]

So I pulled the sump off today and wtf
?no oil squrters at all, there wasnt even a place to put them whats the deal there. This is an original gsr motor.

 

[Paul]

The squirters in a 93t are located in the main journals. They are a bullet type thing that angle out towards the piston..

Jarreds pic i came across over at mivec.co.nz

 

[youda]

lol, thanks, this is my first time pulling apart a 93.

 

[CYBORG-X]

im also building a 4g93 +T and im using a proton block with no squirters, in short ive spoken to a few of the best engine builders in the state, and even bob reiley of ralliart, and all of them said to remove the factory squirters, and fit forged internals.... i myself am looking to squeeze about 25psi of boost with a CR of 10:1 and aiming to produce 250kw then a 100 shot on top....

 

[CYBORG-X]

Yes, the oil pump relief valve can be shimmed up to increase pressure... but it obviously cant change the flow output ( which is more critical when the oil gets hot).

I'm building a couple of high comp ( 10:1) competition engines running on E85. They have been built into NA blocks without the oil squirters... I will let you know down the track how the
piston hardness goes from not being cooled by oil sqirters... My feeling is that the lower combustion temperature of E85 fuel will help balance high compression and high boost ( 23psi). I'm not sure
it will be an issue, as there are plenty of factory turbo motors not running squirters that live with high output .

the e85 dosent neccisarily burn cooler, just slower, and more efficient... you have to remember you need aprox 85% more fuel to achive this...
a better way than e85 is good old water/methanol injection...

 

[youda]

this has given me heaps to think about as i have a full satria gti motor under the house.