Possible power on this build?

[foR.]

Just throwing numbers around as I've decided to go with head work now rather than get the car running sooner.

So far the vr4 wil contian:

-Bottom end-

vr4 block, rods, crank
evo 8 pistons
arp bolts all round
acl bearings
removed balance shaft

-Head-

vr4 head
Brian Crower 272 in/out
Brian Crower HD Springs/Retainers
Ferrea 6000 1mm over valves
(still looking at lifters to, help?)
(port polis, flow - not sure just what yet)

-other-
E3 Big 16g - W/G welded on exhaust wheel
Steam tube standard position manifold
3" exhaust
cooler/piping (to be decided)

etc etc..

I've never done this ammount of work to a vr4 before but am wanting the most out of the build and have about 70% of whats listed above.

So if anyones had same or similar setup what power figues have been and can be estimated?

Is 300kw / 400hp atw within reach

Suggestions, comments and constructive critisism welcome

 

[tUfRiCe]

300kw is high with stock rods and e8 pistons ud prob want forged items to maintain that sort of stress... turbo will run out of puff at about 220kws pushing really hard maybe 230 240....all ure head work will support what u want though

im running pretty much the same above just on an evo motor an aiming for 210-220kws max

 

[CLuTZ]

Its good to see people testing the factory items for once, instead of going for a j.e/eagle combo or whatnot!

Stock rods have been proven, many times over, especially in the U.S! I think 400hp is not unreasonable, but like what tuffie said, the turbo is going to be the only thing holding you back from your goals, if you want that kinda power- at the treads

 

[foR.]

Cheers Clutz

I don't have the cash for a forged block setup and just want the car going, so though't I'd get the best I can for the head and the E8 pistons where a steel at $500 inc rings NZ.. so why not.

Hmm... Making me rethink stuff now dam it! So you recon the turbo will run out when the engine is capable of more?

I like doing things once and don't wnat to get a manifold made for a standard fit TD05 when I want to change it after

Any sugestions then since the block can more than likely handle close if not 300kw. What turbo will let the engine stretch it's legs but still be close to 0 lag as I have intended.

 

[CLuTZ]

Perhaps if you got a back cut exhaust wheel and a 20g comp wheel you could test its limits- remember trigger did a 10.X on a TD05, so anything is possible. Crunchy is the man.

 

[foR.]

Yea thats true, Crunchy had involvement in that?

 

[CLuTZ]

Yea thats true, Crunchy had involvement in that?

Steve Murch has a ton of knowledge when it comes to compressors- if you're looking for a turbo that will deliver what you want, then i'd recommend talking to him!

(09) 8107009

021529781


Check out his work bench!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACSHiN5UeKU 8)

 

[NZVR4]

even though you want to retain stock pistons and rods a really good tune will go a long way to keeping the car alive,what ecu will you be using? the rods can stay alive at 500 flywheel HP.

also a good set of brakes will allow you to carry more speed into corners and make up for a lack of HP if you stay with the 16g,perhaps you should lower your power expectations and just put up with what the 16g will give you,if you have the skill to out drive the cars handling using the stock 16g then your doing pretty damn well,you should only look at bigger turbo's once you have found the limits of what the standard 16g can put out

you have mentioned you want to try hillclimbs etc and trust me you will be hard pressed to out drive the car using a 16g if you have good suspension,you may loose a little on the straights but you will gain in other areas.

if you dont have too much experiance in competition driving then you can end up going backwards by trying to modify the engine too much,you already have more than enough power to get yourself in trouble,the biggest gains will be handling set up and brakes-dont chase power untill you have found the cars limits power wise,if you try and chase power now before getting the car sorted in the brakes/suspension then you will be fighting a harder battle

 

[NZVR4]

another good thing circuit cars do is building the engine tougher than it needs to be as it will be under alot more stress than normal conditions-they may have a whole heap of brand name parts under the bonnet good for 500hp but will maybe run at 400 to keep reliability which is an important part of competition driving.theres no point having an engine that can handle 400 at the wheels and then running it at 400 at the wheels you will be on the edge of damage all the time-if it can handle 400 then run it at 350,tune the car on 98 and then on race day run avgas which is purely for safe gaurd not power gains although that wont work on all set ups

i think you will be much better off keeping to a 16g for now,if you dont believe that idea then line up a group N spec evo which will have less HP than you and watch your car get owned as their superior set up out drives your car-chasing power shopuld be the last thing on your list

 

[CLuTZ]

if you dont have too much experiance in competition driving then you can end up going backwards by trying to modify the engine too much,you already have more than enough power to get yourself in trouble,the biggest gains will be handling set up and brakes-dont chase power untill you have found the cars limits power wise,if you try and chase power now before getting the car sorted in the brakes/suspension then you will be fighting a harder battle

I agree with that

 

[NZVR4]

and thats also why honda's make such great track cars,out of the box they come with great handling and set up which allows the car to make use of all the n/a power it has to offer-driver skill is then what determines how fast they go,once you find the limits you can start modifying the engine and brakes and suspension further to accomodate extra power-i have seen so many cars at the track that make 4-500hp that have rings driven around them by less powerfull cars and some of them go out and find more HP as they seem to think another 100hp will see them right.

also foR put your car on a serious diet for race day and get rid of as much weight that is allowable and invest in the best tyres you can afford.

 

[foR.]

Agreed with all of the above, something I should mention is the car will not be "tracked/race/hill climbed" etc untill I have a complete package

Right now at this stage I want the motor built so I can have her running then (refering to Clutz post about Steve)

I'll take the car in (engine complete and running obviously) and see what he can come up with to best suite my needs

It will deffinatly go on a diet for race day, but being in a crap job I'm trying to focus on getting it running with the specs listed at the top of the page and then work on the suspension etc.

I can justify 1g on engine but not on suspension at the moment

Cheers all!

 

[foR.]

Nice vid BTW

 

[foR.]

power shopuld be the last thing on your list

As the title of the topic states ("Possible" power on this build) Just after opinions and if people had done the same as like I said I've never done this ammount of work to a vr4, only the E3 basic boltons

Cheers

 

[NZVR4]

if you do it in that order because thats the only way you can then i highly reccomend you run quite low boost when you do get it on the track and resist the temptation to wind it up and feel all of the power.

then when you have reached the limits you can start winding in more power,starting off in a standard car allows you to set a benchmark for all mods,if you had a perfect world you would do each mod seperately so you know that when things go wrong you know exactly why,thats abit hard to do when you build the final product and then try race it,some people are out there doing hillclimbs and track days and cutting times they think they are happy with or the car is capable of when really a lot of time could be shaved off if they made a plan to begin with,they tend to over power the chassis setup(even a 16g can overpower a chassis setup) and end up fighting the car around the track without even knowing why this is happening

some of the best advice you will get will be from fellow hillclimbers,talk to some of them on race days and most will be more than happy to help you out with how to get the most from your car

 

[EVO-00X]

I would have initially skimped on the oversize valves and headwork and put the $$ toward another turbo, then rods then pistons, then headwork. If you do manage to push it to 370-400hp atw I wouldnt be pushing it anymore until you get the bottom end bulletproof. It's not just upgrading for the extra power that I'm talking about, if you're planning on stressing a competition engine with those stock internals they wouldnt handle the abuse long term with high rpm and would require regular pulling down which will cost you more in the long run. Build it right the first time and save time and money on rework. Forged pistons are lighter, forged rods are lighter, and your engine will gain a little more power, run that bit more cooler, and be a lot more reliable.

 

[foR.]

Basically I can't afford a forged block hence why the build specs are as follows. I got the best for my budget and thats it so far.

Once the car is is complete and going I WILL be building a 2.3L stroker.

But for now I want the head done first as thats interchangeable later and get what I can out of the block.

 

[NZVR4]

to be honest if i was you i would be running the car with standard head and block and turbo etc and put what money you have now towards suspension and get out there and start racing and getting experiance

whilst you are doing that you can collect the parts you need to build your 2.3L and either build a seperate engine ready to swap straight in or pull the car off the road when you have enough money to complete everything

is that a possible idea or have you gone too far with your original plans?

 

[foR.]

Thats still quite possible, if I chose not to do the head the money would go onto the block so I'm still more or less in the same situation moneyless and waiting haha.

But I do see your point and as I said earlier I woulnd't put it on the track untill the package is complete and I can start experimenting from there