Wideband Qs

[VIN18M]

I've been reading up a bit on widebands lately and realise as I'll be running a haltech it makes sense to get one for tuning purposes. Can anyone tell me if I need to get a controller for it or can I just run the wideband o2 sensor and control the tuning via the ecu?
I'm really not fussed on being able to play with mixes on the go or having a fancy display screen so if I can get away with buying a Bosch wideband sensor that would be ideal.

 

[croket]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/181169988609?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

something like this is perfect for keepin an eye on mixtures while cruising or on full boost , ive got a plx300r that does data logging and bullshit but its wired in as a plain afr screen so i can see my closed loop cruise ratios and boost ratios . Very cheap piece of insurance , ive just purchased the above to fit in my mates r33

 

[evo-gsr]

I have an Autometer one for sale cheap in the For Sale section. It doesnt need the Bosch sensor to work either.

 

[brisvr4]

I have an Autometer one for sale cheap in the For Sale section. It doesnt need the Bosch sensor to work either.

That is not a wideband gauge though. Not any use at all for tuning.

 

[4piknup]

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com.au/viewitem?index=0&sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=300927978858

I have this mtx. I think there is a long cable and a short cable option. I went for the long.
It is self contained and talks to the ecmlink fine

 

[clone]

are there ones that come with software to run straight into a laptop ?

 

[VIN18M]

So these o2 sensors need to be tuned independently and separately to the timing/boost set by the ECU?

What are the effects of running a narrow band with an aftermarket ECU like a Haltech? Does this just mean the tune is likely to be less precise?

 

[4piknup]

are there ones that come with software to run straight into a laptop ?

I think all do. Mine does but I dont use it like that.
It can simulate a narrowband so you can replace your front o2 and wire the innovate direct to the oem ecu. So the oem ecu sees a normal narrowband and you see a wideband on the dash gauge.
My ecmlink accepts a wideband input, so you tell ecmlink a target afr at a load point and it will meet it.
I would think most decent ecu are similar.

 

[4piknup]

So these o2 sensors need to be tuned independently and separately to the timing/boost set by the ECU?

What are the effects of running a narrow band with an aftermarket ECU like a Haltech? Does this just mean the tune is likely to be less precise?

They require calibration every so often. Just remove it from the pipe and turn it on and press calibrate. ..

you need a wideband to tune your open loop feuling. All the high load/rpm parts. All the tune that if its wrong it will hurt the engine.
If you are self tuning then you need a wideband. If you get it dyno tuned then tuner will use his.
Im not familiar with haltech but most decent ecu (haltech included) are same dog different leg.
They will work fine on a narrow band o2. But they can only use it for closed loop (cruise and idle). And they must be setup with a wideband for higher loads.
Using a wideband to permanently replace the narrowband will mean the ecu can learn fueling at higher load points and you have a visual gauge for your own information. As well as being able to log mixtures as fault finding tool.

Worth every cent.
My 2.4c

 

[clone]

well im currently just doing a road tune with my haltech e8 but i need an AFR program to see if i need more or less fuel. Are there kits? im able to make a bracket to punch in the exhaust etc just need a good program

 

[4piknup]

Not familiar enough to be any help to you at all sorry.
The software with the innovate allows logging straight off the wideband.
Have you just the bare sensor?

 

[khubner1]

ok clone basicly go into an exhaust shop and ask for an o2 sensor bung to be installed into your exhaust tell then it's for a wide band they'll likely put it in just after the dump pipe.

most wideband sensors can be sold with a gauge this guage will be able to tell you 1 or both of 2 things lean rich or stoich. lean = not enough fuel an afr ratio of above 14.7:1 (for a bosted car you would want this to be around 12.5:1 from what I've read) sotich is 14.7:1 = perfect afr ratio all fuel going in is being burnt and all the air is being consumed and rich is anything below 14.7:1 turbo cars often aim to run slightly rich most aiming for around 12.5:1

some ecus can take in a wideband o2 signal and this is where you laptop datalogging and tuning come in you will be told exactly the same reading as your guage is showing in graph form

 

[VIN18M]

They require calibration every so often. Just remove it from the pipe and turn it on and press calibrate. ..

you need a wideband to tune your open loop feuling. All the high load/rpm parts. All the tune that if its wrong it will hurt the engine.
If you are self tuning then you need a wideband. If you get it dyno tuned then tuner will use his.
Im not familiar with haltech but most decent ecu (haltech included) are same dog different leg.
They will work fine on a narrow band o2. But they can only use it for closed loop (cruise and idle). And they must be setup with a wideband for higher loads.
Using a wideband to permanently replace the narrowband will mean the ecu can learn fueling at higher load points and you have a visual gauge for your own information. As well as being able to log mixtures as fault finding tool.

Worth every cent.
My 2.4c

Completely newb question but...
Is it possible to have the narrowband o2 sensor re fitted once the tuner has used his wideband to tune? No need to keep a wideband sensor fitted?

 

[4piknup]

They will work fine on a narrow band o2. But they can only use it for closed loop (cruise and idle). And they must be setup with a wideband for higher loads.

The ecu should be dyno tuned witha wide band. After that you can use your narrow band.

 

[evo-gsr]

^ agree.

 

[nigel_a]

khubner 12.5:1 is a bit lean for boost, id be more inclined to run 11.5 to 12:1

on cruise 14.7 is ideal. ive got my car to sit at 15:1 on cruise at 100-110km, give me a little better fuel economy.

 

[VIN18M]

Awesome info as usual guys, cleared up a few things.
Cheers!

 

[4piknup]

khubner 12.5:1 is a bit lean for boost, id be more inclined to run 11.5 to 12:1

on cruise 14.7 is ideal. ive got my car to sit at 15:1 on cruise at 100-110km, give me a little better fuel economy.

What happens at 16:1? I read that is best for economy.But I dunno if it effects the cat converter or anything

 

[GeoKez]

16.1 would be too lean I reckon Jack. 15.1 has long been cited as best for economy, but, now days it's more to do with what type of gasses are released, more so than power and economy. Maybe 16.1 has 'nice gases? Chemical make up of the exhaust when cruising at 14.5 AFR V's 15.1 AFR is apparently quite different and therefore the effectiveness of the cat convertor is affected. I read a white paper on it years ago and it got way more technical than I cared to get into it.

The way I understand it, so long as your not waayyy out of the ballpark, AFR doesn't have that bigger affect on power, only economy and emissions. The same car tuned to 12:1 AFR will make close enough to the same power as if it was tuned to 14.2 AFR. For turbo's, it's down to at what AFR allows you to screw in the most timing without knock damage or cooking it.

$0.02

 

[p055um5]

I run an AEM it has a output wire that connects to the haltech o2 sensor input then you tell the haltech whats connected to the input and goto the 3d AFR maps and set what AFR at the load points you want. Find the info here http://www.aemelectronics.com/