Velocity Racing
Well-Known Member
Hi all,
I'm after a front subframe (k-frame) for an evo 1-2-3
Cheers
Lewis
I'm after a front subframe (k-frame) for an evo 1-2-3
Cheers
Lewis
WTB: Evo 1-2-3 Front subframe (K frame)
- Thread starter Velocity Racing
- Start date
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Velocity Racing
Well-Known Member
found one..
Im very interested to see the results as the one that my mate has picked up is a Evo 1 subframe.
As far as ive always been aware the subframes are exactly the same between Evo 1-3 as the track difference between 1 and 2/3 is in the control arms.
It will be good to measure as the damaged one in the car is Evo 3.
cheers
Lewis
Im very interested to see the results as the one that my mate has picked up is a Evo 1 subframe.
As far as ive always been aware the subframes are exactly the same between Evo 1-3 as the track difference between 1 and 2/3 is in the control arms.
It will be good to measure as the damaged one in the car is Evo 3.
cheers
Lewis
BMGTZ
Grumpy old man from the school of hard knocks
I actually have both at home....I once measured between the lower control arm mounts and recall the evo 2/3 k frame was 10 or 12 mm wider. roughly measured with a tape measure.
I will do it again tonight and confirm
To my understanding:
EVO I/GSR and EVO II/III's definitely have different K-frame part numbers in ASA.
A Cusco lower brace is made with elongated holes to suit all EVO I-III's K-frames.
EVO I/GSR K-frame is 750mm diamater (see attached pic below of measurement)
EVO II/III is 760mm (when measured the same as the picture below)
Perhaps Brian can double check the measurements if he has them there? Else, I can measure up my EVO III's Kframe when I get my jack back! :lol: .
EVO I/GSR and EVO II/III's definitely have different K-frame part numbers in ASA.
A Cusco lower brace is made with elongated holes to suit all EVO I-III's K-frames.
EVO I/GSR K-frame is 750mm diamater (see attached pic below of measurement)
EVO II/III is 760mm (when measured the same as the picture below)
Perhaps Brian can double check the measurements if he has them there? Else, I can measure up my EVO III's Kframe when I get my jack back! :lol: .
Attachments
BMGTZ
Grumpy old man from the school of hard knocks
well I measured.an evo 2 and a gsr....at best there is 2mm difference! that is measured where the lower control arm bolts on.
gsr was 753 and the evo was 755.
bugger and I just bought another evo 3 cross member
I looked for a few minutes to try and spot the differences but.....couldn't....other than the sway bay retainers maybe a bee's dick smaller
we had this discussion many moons ago
I was also 100% it was the arms, then I got them and sat them side by side and they were the same
The crossmember bolt holes are spaced out 7.5mm further on each side making a total of 15mm
definately try and get a 2/3 one lewis cas they are different
I was also 100% it was the arms, then I got them and sat them side by side and they were the same
The crossmember bolt holes are spaced out 7.5mm further on each side making a total of 15mm
definately try and get a 2/3 one lewis cas they are different
I'll measure the EVO III k-frame tomorrow if I can borrow a hydraulic jack... or I might use a scissor jack and a block of wood instead.
Remember also, some kframes may be slightly bent :lol:
It doesnt take much to bend the fukkers if you hit a gutter or hit a decent pothole :lol:
Remember also, some kframes may be slightly bent :lol:
It doesnt take much to bend the fukkers if you hit a gutter or hit a decent pothole :lol:
BMGTZ
Grumpy old man from the school of hard knocks
It was raining pretty hard....... but I managed to get the two K frames set up so I could take some pictures.
the comparison is the GSR kframe to an evo two.
they are the same ...when looking at the point where the lower control arm bolts on.
if you want me to measure somewhere else.....let me know
the comparison is the GSR kframe to an evo two.
they are the same ...when looking at the point where the lower control arm bolts on.
if you want me to measure somewhere else.....let me know
well Im stuffed if I know Brian.
I was alway adament it was in the arms, then I compared my evo2 ones to a cc gsr one and they were the same?
along with that and others advising the extra with in the lower arm spacing.:unsure:
I was alway adament it was in the arms, then I compared my evo2 ones to a cc gsr one and they were the same?
along with that and others advising the extra with in the lower arm spacing.:unsure:
BMGTZ
Grumpy old man from the school of hard knocks
I have always been led to believe the Kframe was wider too......and actually just bought another one from Paul based on that belief. When that gets here I will measure that as well but.....the evo k frame pictured came out of a half cut that had all the panels and didn't have any crash damage to the body. That is why I kept it.
got me stuffed....:blink: I will find the other evo 2 control arm and attach it..... then measure ball joints pin to pin
any one able to suggest another area to measure???
one thing that I think I see on your gsr Kframe which I think may be totally irrelevent.
It looks like it has an evo 2/6 rear caster bush??
evo1/gsr have the big rubber one without the bolt on the end??
Is your GSR crossmember a japspec one maybe??
It looks like it has an evo 2/6 rear caster bush??
evo1/gsr have the big rubber one without the bolt on the end??
Is your GSR crossmember a japspec one maybe??
BMGTZ
Grumpy old man from the school of hard knocks
it is possible that it was an evo 1 kframe as I had an evo 1 half cut and stripped that.....by I was pretty sure on it being a gsr. {unless it was swapped by the owner of the gsr wreck I got}
If its the same Paul, he measured his EVO II Kframe at 760mm - see post #70 at this link: http://www.4gtuner.com/topic/11721-get-the-tape-measure-out-evo-i-iii-gsr-wheel-track-discussion/page__hl__%2Bcontrol+%2Barm__st__60
I didnt get a chance to check the E3 today unfortunately.
I didnt get a chance to check the E3 today unfortunately.
BMGTZ
Grumpy old man from the school of hard knocks
its the Paul parting out his car on here.
he is sending it over Friday...when it gets here I will check it against the other evo 2 kframe and see if there is noticeable differences/
Hey guys,
I find this great to see everyone working to find the answer!
i am not saying i know all, and i have seen so many differences on small things in jap car outright i would never say anything is a rule.
When i started at Adelaide jap imports we had cd5a, cd9a and ce9a sub frames and arms. i have compared them all together and the only diff i could find was the extra 7 to 8mm in width of the control arms, and even sits slightly further forward for more castor.
i was shown a different sub frame which had some extra bracing on it but it was so long ago i didnt take to much notice, but the guy seemed to think it was a ralliart unit.
i guess we will see if there is any diff in these ones as i sold Lewis's mate the cc gsr frame to replace the evo 3 unit in the rally car.
i still have a gsr frame (cd5a) and arms, and also some evo 2/3 control arms if anyone wants more measurements also.
Side not even all the cd5a gsr frames and arms i have seen have all had the larger rear bush on them same as the aust ones have, so i would same the ones in Brians pictures would be the cd9a evo 1 items.
I find this great to see everyone working to find the answer!
i am not saying i know all, and i have seen so many differences on small things in jap car outright i would never say anything is a rule.
When i started at Adelaide jap imports we had cd5a, cd9a and ce9a sub frames and arms. i have compared them all together and the only diff i could find was the extra 7 to 8mm in width of the control arms, and even sits slightly further forward for more castor.
i was shown a different sub frame which had some extra bracing on it but it was so long ago i didnt take to much notice, but the guy seemed to think it was a ralliart unit.
i guess we will see if there is any diff in these ones as i sold Lewis's mate the cc gsr frame to replace the evo 3 unit in the rally car.
i still have a gsr frame (cd5a) and arms, and also some evo 2/3 control arms if anyone wants more measurements also.
Side not even all the cd5a gsr frames and arms i have seen have all had the larger rear bush on them same as the aust ones have, so i would same the ones in Brians pictures would be the cd9a evo 1 items.
Velocity Racing
Well-Known Member
Haha i dissapear for a day and this thread goes off!!
It will be great to get to the bottom of it, but im thinking unless we can get one of the engineers that worked on desigining the car on here i think we might just be guessing..
I always thourght it was in the arms, but personally have never measured. I think im with Simon on the fact that who knows what is each car, its almost like when the were built what ever bits they had went in the car. Its little things like where the captive nut sits in the chassis rails meaning that a bolt that works on one car doesnt on another.
I know Simon has asked me about the ralliart subframe, but ive never seen a listing for one on the ralliart parts list, and for group N rallying i dont see how making a strengthened subframe would be allowed.
I will get the bent subframe off my mate (Guy) who this wanted add was originally for, that i would think would be Evo 3 as it would have been ordered from Ralliart originally, but then who knows what they send over.
Cheers
Lewis
It will be great to get to the bottom of it, but im thinking unless we can get one of the engineers that worked on desigining the car on here i think we might just be guessing..
I always thourght it was in the arms, but personally have never measured. I think im with Simon on the fact that who knows what is each car, its almost like when the were built what ever bits they had went in the car. Its little things like where the captive nut sits in the chassis rails meaning that a bolt that works on one car doesnt on another.
I know Simon has asked me about the ralliart subframe, but ive never seen a listing for one on the ralliart parts list, and for group N rallying i dont see how making a strengthened subframe would be allowed.
I will get the bent subframe off my mate (Guy) who this wanted add was originally for, that i would think would be Evo 3 as it would have been ordered from Ralliart originally, but then who knows what they send over.
Cheers
Lewis
OK, you're not going to believe this, but I just whipped out the scissor jack and checked the EVO III kframe using several reference points because the crossmember and exhaust are in the way... I must have measured and double checked it at least half a dozen times. If I was a betting man I'd put my money on 760mm from what I just saw :lol:
But looking at the pics Brian posted, it looks like the arms are longer in an EVO 2/3 than an EVO 1... :lol:
It got me thinking outside the square when Simon mentioned caster. Lets say, theoretically for now, that the K-frames are all the same size. I found an old reference to EVO 1 vs EVO 2/3 front camber/caster setup (see attached pic). Would this make you think that the extra track may be a result of the extra caster + camber that positions each wheel a little more forward and a little more outwards an extra 5mm on both sides? therefore accounting for the extra 10mm wider track? If so, what contributes to the different camber and caster angles? (control arms + bushes?)
At the end of the day I guess if you're running aftermarket suspension and have it setup for more camber and caster than what the EVO 2/3's have, what we've been discussing is futile :lol:
But looking at the pics Brian posted, it looks like the arms are longer in an EVO 2/3 than an EVO 1... :lol:
It got me thinking outside the square when Simon mentioned caster. Lets say, theoretically for now, that the K-frames are all the same size. I found an old reference to EVO 1 vs EVO 2/3 front camber/caster setup (see attached pic). Would this make you think that the extra track may be a result of the extra caster + camber that positions each wheel a little more forward and a little more outwards an extra 5mm on both sides? therefore accounting for the extra 10mm wider track? If so, what contributes to the different camber and caster angles? (control arms + bushes?)
At the end of the day I guess if you're running aftermarket suspension and have it setup for more camber and caster than what the EVO 2/3's have, what we've been discussing is futile :lol:
