44 replies to this topic

[ozeclipse]

Well after being asked by Vicroads for a VASS certificate for my motor, and the engineer being a %*&# its back to stock for me...
So, I need a stock motor that will fit into a CC Lancer coupe legally and in roadworthy condition, and running well! I don't have the experience or a huge amount of time either, so I'm willing to trade my motor, gearbox, plumbing, and other parts that may be needed if you can fit the motor to my car 100% so it can get back on the road.
I wish it didn't come down to this but it was either this or buy a Prius

So what I have is:
Evo III 4G63T
Evo III AWD gearbox with a custom fabricated ''locker collar'' limiting it to FWD for now but can be removed.

My car has just completed a RWC, so all CVs, mounts, etc are in good condition.
I'd prefer a 4G93, or a fuel injected 4G15, but open to offers. Cash offers also considered.

Located in Kilsyth Vic... but my car is on a moving permit so can come to you, or I can organize a factory for a weekend if needed?

I'm losing out a LOT of money here but I just want this car back on the road.

[Gianni]

I have a fwd kframe and crossmember if you need. Then just need a fwd box.

Then I also have a non turbo 2L for sale aswell

Possibly a lot of other stuff
And im in Melbourne too
0424192150. Hit me up

Edited by Gianni, 25 October 2012 - 06:49 AM.

[ozeclipse]

I have a fwd kframe and crossmember if you need. Then just need a fwd box.

Then I also have a non turbo 2L for sale aswell

I wish I've already been discussing with Vicroads with your NA motor in mind... unfortunatly they're screwing me right around!
6 years ago the 4G63T was fitted to my car... last week they conveniently lost all records of it, and when I showed documents they just told me to get a VASS certificate then couldn't tell me what motor I could run!! So that leaves me with factory motors from the GL or the GLXi... just need to get one in its entirety.

It was so long ago I don't remember what was changed... I'm guessing even the CVs were different between Evo and coupe? So that leaves me with K-frame, engine mounts, crossmember, CVs, hoses, motor, gearbox, ECU, loom the whole bloody car
This whole situation seems so backwards... having to downgrade my car. I suppose I'll have to lose the Evo brakes, and shocks too?

Edited by ozeclipse, 25 October 2012 - 07:27 AM.

[Gianni]

If you are going back to "stock motor" wouldn't it then just require a road worthy to pass as there is no modification. I'd leave the breaks. I doubt a road worthy guy would notice twin pots aren't meant to be on it (unless you have something fancy)

I have most of a Glxi elec loom. But your standard loom should run an na motor, just get an na ecu (should be easy at wreckers) loom won't be a roady issue.

Your running an awd box so will need to swap the awd kframe and xmember back to stock (which I have) then drive shafts I have as well. The single piece ones.
Gear box at wreckers should be easy to find. They are $120 at centre rd.
Motor might be trickier to find. But doable. And I'm more than happy to help out getting things fitted of needed. I have all the equiptment needed

[Gianni]

I put an na 2L in my cb and still passed road worthy. But they look the sane as the 1.6. Cc's it's a shame they didn't have the dohc or we could get away with it.

Is it currently registered or will Vic roads need to check engine numbers now too? I've never had to deal with this end of things.

[ozeclipse]

yeah unfortunatly Vicroads need to view the car and enter a new engine number... I've considered re-stamping the 4G63 with a 4G15 code but then knowing my luck someone would notice and I'd be in serious trouble... it was the 63 code that flagged it for mine last week... it went through the roady fine even with the fluro green paint, giant rims and BIG Veilside spoiler and excessive bodywork.
I wasn't sure if the factory CVs for the coupe mated up fine with the Evo rotors... I'd love to keep them in there, may as well keep some upgrades on it and not be a complete ricer!
Unfortunatly I've been looking at bits I could upgrade... not which bits I could still keep if I downgrade horribly.

Do you know what work would be required to fit say a 4G15 from a CE Lancer? Or not worth the effort? I'd prefer to run a EFI motor just for reliability sake.

[clone]

engine is the wrong way around so ....no

[Gianni]

Can't do a ce motor. I had an na gear box with standard coupe shafts and hubs. Then I upgraded to Evo shafts with standard hubs. Then upgraded hubs and brakes to Evo. Long story short. Current brake setup you can keep.

Just focus on finding a 4g15 from a cc, and a cc gear box that is Hydrolic not cable driven and a cc ecu

Hoses keep and if really need changing its a small thing that can be organized later

Kframe and cross member and shafts are sorted. I've got them.

Then getting an exhaust to fit up to your cat

Edited by Gianni, 25 October 2012 - 08:46 AM.

[evo-gsr]

I might be able to help with the following....but...Im in NSW



"a 4g15 from a cc, and a cc gear box that is Hydraulic not cable driven and a cc ecu "

[jack be nimble]

A 4g15 will bolt to your gearbox as it is.
A fwd gearbox will fit on your current k frame as it is the roll stop rail that is bent to get past the transfer case. A fwd box will have even more room.
Get a proton engine with the mitsi ecu running it. That way the loom will basically swap over or all sensors will plug in easy. Like a Satria non gti.

[Gianni]

Good info jack

I guess grab ecu, 4g15 and box (for roady purposes) I got shafts. Keep current kframe and xmember

[jack be nimble]

you want this engine bay

not this one


look at pickles and fowles salvage auctions and get a smashed car for nicks. (none suitable there at present)

Edited by jack of all, 25 October 2012 - 10:43 AM.

[Evo-00x]

Go to another engineer. It'll be better in the long run to get it all approved. There's no reason why you cant keep what you currently have as long as you maintain all the oem 2L Turbo emissons system, then you dont need an emissions test. Heaps of coupes have been upgraded to 2L turbo's both oem and modified. Looks to me like you're already there, but need to find a certifying engineer to inspect and sign off on it. Its not that difficult to get done if you know how to approach it.

[jack be nimble]

Good info jack

I guess grab ecu, 4g15 and box (for roady purposes) I got shafts. Keep current kframe and xmember

why does he need a gearbox? im sure a 4g15 or 16 will bolt to it. you only need passenger 1 piece shaft if there is no bosses to bolt the 2 part shafts to.
the 15 has the altenator bolted on the same (front) side so less wiring, whereas the 93 is on the other side. not sure about the 16 though...

with the engine bay i indicated, the ecu should plug in and nearly all the wiring will be pretty close.



this is the 1.8 4g93 that will go in. the loom is really, really close, except the alt is on the front. the ecu will plug in, your tacho will work (unlike the distributor style ones that need different tacho)
this is probably my pick, if its allowed

[jack be nimble]

Go to another engineer. It'll be better in the long run to get it all approved. There's no reason why you cant keep what you currently have as long as you maintain all the oem 2L Turbo emissons system, then you dont need an emissions test. Heaps of coupes have been upgraded to 2L turbo's both oem and modified. Looks to me like you're already there, but need to find a certifying engineer to inspect and sign off on it. Its not that difficult to get done if you know how to approach it.

true true. gotta be worth a couple of phone calls

[Gianni]

With the gear box some road worthy places won't pass it with the output spline just sitting there.

I posted up links to all the Vic engineers last year some time. Talk to the one name jean I think. He was good and cheapest and most helpful.

[jack be nimble]

Pull the shaft and put a core plug in the hole.

[Evo-00x]

^^^ then make a gearbox inspection plate that covers the spline (like Neil did), or weld the centre diff and remove the transfer output shaft and viscous coupling from the gearbox and use a welsh plug to block up the hole where the shaft came out. A welded centre is better for a FWD conversion of an AWD box anyday anyway.

It'll be less physical work and possibly $$$ to get your car engineered with the current setup than to go back to a 4G93 or 4G15 (btw WTF??? dont ever go back to a 4G15!!! lol).

Before you seek another engineer, do your homework and get yourself ready to provide information and respond confidently to questions about your modifications.

Start listing all the oem components of a typical car = engine, chassis, suspension, drivetrain, interior, steering system, electrical, fuel system, body kit, seats, brakes, lighting etc in a WORD document.
Then with the eg NCOP for Light Vehicle modifications in your hand, run through each item and make reference to how your vehicle still complies, or what manufacturer substituted parts you have fitted instead, obviously without modification by welding or redrilling holes, List what aftermarket components you have fitted and how they still meet the ADR requirements. (eg aftermarket steering wheel, ADR or TUV approved, maintains minimum diameter requirements, show pic as evidence).

My Engineering support document took me months to put together and really its not that difficult to do - its common sense stuff.

Here's an extract from it.
BRAKING SYSTEM
In accordance to Vehicle Standards Bulletin 14, National Code of Practice for Light Vehicle Construction and Modification, Section LG – Brakes.

The vehicle has been fitted with Lancer Evolution I-III brakes; including 276mm diameter front vented disc rotors, 260mm diameter rear solid disc rotors and callipers as well as master cylinder. The vehicle was subjected to a hydraulic brake test according to the requirements of ADR 31/00. A ‘pink slip’ brake test was performed from 75kph and the average deceleration was 80%g. Braided stainless steel brake hoses have been fitted. These are made by Goodridge and are claimed to meet FMVSS106. [insert photos of brake test results]
Master Cylinder and Brake Booster Assembly: Manufacturer Substitution
Braking performance is upgraded via a suitably substituted Lancer Evolution 25.4mm (1”) master cylinder ID bore. Effective diameter is 203m Front / 230mm rear and Boosting Ratio of 5.5 (at 280N (62lbs)). An aftermarket Master Cylinder brace has been utilised to further increase the stiffness and strength of the master cylinder mount on the firewall resulting in increased braking responsiveness and reduced sponginess in the braking system.

Front Brakes: Manufacturer Substitution
The front brakes have been upgraded with the fitment of floating caliper, twin piston, 276mm ventilated disc rotors from a Lancer Evolution I-III.

Rear Brakes: Manufacturer Substitution
The rear brakes have been upgraded with the fitment of floating caliper, single piston, 260mm solid discs from a Lancer Evolution I-III. Note that the rear brake components are identical to those also fitted to the Australian delivered OEM 1993-1996 1,8 DOHC EFI GSR Lancer turbo.

Hydraulic Brake Hoses (front and rear)
The front and rear brakes are fitted and tagged with FMVSS106 European Standard (ADR 07/00 recognised equivalent standard) Goodridge brand high performance hydraulic brakelines. These brakelines are constructed with a PTFE inner with stainless steel overbraid and are approved in accordance to ISO 9002/ Dot Approved FMVSS 106 Specified / TUV quality certification (SAE J1401 equivalent). The yellow Goodridge tag and clear insulation sleeve remain on the brake lines as proof of authenticity.

GOODRIDGE BRAKELINE KIT
SMT0704-4P
MITSUBISHI LANCER EVOLUTION I-III

ORIGINAL PACKAGING CONFIRMS DOT APPROVED STANDARD

‘APPROVED FMVSS106 SPECIFIED / TUV / ISO 9002’
[insert photo of Goodridge packaging as proof]

It takes time to put it together and each person should do their own so they learn about their mods, their car and the rules at the same time. It'll ll be worth it in the end when you address each modification. It will show the engineer that you are not just the typical yobbo off the street with a modified car, but alternatively, somebody whom has put in an effort to understanding the rules, then consciously make a decision to 'upgrade' or 'modify' a component, then address how that upgrade/modification still meet the ADR requirements/ motor vehicle modification guidelines.

An engineer will be more inclined to tick off on manufacturer replacement parts already found in Australian complied vehicles, especially if its from the top of the range model or sports model of a CC Lancer variant (coupe/sedan/wagon doesnt matter) and all the associated parts for that modification/substitution equivalent to the same vehicle were transferred over with it.
Brakes = calipers, rotors, hubs, lines, mater cylinder and booster from a GSR or EVO.
Suspension = steering components, struts, k-frame, sway bars, collapsible steering rack, power steering column, lower control arms etc from GSR or EVO. Dont forget maintaining wheel track too. The OEM owners manual is full of good info to compare to.
Engine = mounts, emission control, electricals, fuel supply, you get the picture...

BOLT ON MANUFACTURER SUBSTITUTED PARTS from the GSR or EVO are MUCH easier to pass than custom fabricated stuff! We are dealing with modified production vehicles here with bolt on components, we're not dealing with indivdually constructed vehicles with tubular frames etc.

Ive uploaded the DOTARS CC Lancer coupe spec sheet here for you: http://www.filedropp...erspecsheet9631
It shows all the standard data from the original compliance of the CC coupe in Australa. It has the minimum height of suspension from the centre of the wheel hub to the top of the wheel arch too!!! So dont forget that important factor when discussing your suspension mods.

I have also attached below the crux of an engineer certificate which was once issued to a CC Lancer coupe that had been engineered with a 4G93T in it. It will give you some ideas as to what to put down on paper but you will need to make references to GSR and EVO components in your supporting document, not Proton stuff like this particular build included. Note that the fitment of the GSR engine and intercooler etc was all OEM from a GSR so it was VERY EASY to get approved. I

f your 4G63T conversion involved all the GSR/EVO OEM suspension, steering, brakes, engine mounts, emissions controls and intercooler then you can pretty much breeze through certification provided that the engineer is in the frame of mind to acknowledge that you basically have a CC Lancer GSR or EVO, but in a CC coupe chassis. Because the coupe shares the same mounting points for basically everything other than the AWD rear end, 99% of your modifications have technically been only 'bolt on' and 'without fabrication' from the top of the range performance variant of the CC Lancer Keep under the bonnet looking stock and its happy days to you and your car getting back on the road 'legally' with engineer certification.

And FFS, no one is going to pass your car if you cant even strap the battery down properly - Wheres your battery bracket in the pic you posted??? Also re-route that 8 gauge power cable a different way and put it into black conduit or something. Also make sure you dont have any oil leaks too. Use your head man, tidy the car up and make it presentable for inspection with NO SILLY MISTAKES and NO SILLY MODS like a loud exhaust system or a fkn monster tacho on the dash lol.

Good luck with it. I hope it all works out for you.

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Edited by EVO-00X, 25 October 2012 - 12:46 PM.

[EVL20T]

If all comes to shit, just find a Proton wreck and throw engine from that into it, their 4G15 is injected

[ENGINR]

Go to another engineer. It'll be better in the long run to get it all approved. There's no reason why you cant keep what you currently have as long as you maintain all the oem 2L Turbo emissons system, then you dont need an emissions test. Heaps of coupes have been upgraded to 2L turbo's both oem and modified. Looks to me like you're already there, but need to find a certifying engineer to inspect and sign off on it. Its not that difficult to get done if you know how to approach it.

I agree with Rob. When I had my CC GL coupe engineered with the first VR4 engine in it, I kept all the factory emissions setup in place, factory ECU etc and it was OK.