4g63 strange idle and starting ....

[BZY247]

Hey guys,

Ever since the conversion i have two weird problems:

- When starting (especialy in the morning) she cranks for around 5 seconds before she starts. If i release the key before 5 seconds up and try again to crank it the engine has trouble turning and sounds like a flat battery but then starts. However revs are low around 200 so i need to give it some throttle for her to warm up.

- Car idles strangely even while at 800 idle ... almost sounds like it has cams... (stock vr4 cams). Suspecting a dead afm as it idles better without it plugged in.


Any help is most appreciated.

Few notes:
- Has good fuel pressure.
- New plugs.
- New battery.
- Injectors have pulse.
- New high flow oil filter.
- All earths are ok.
- Ecu ok.
- Injectors are cleaned and serviced.

 

[BZY247]

Also, the timing on this thing could be slightly out... not sure if it would be making that much difference to cause such symptoms.

 

[4piknup]

It will idle crap if its not timed. Start with that

 

[BMGTZ]

tell it to stop acting strange and weird. shape up and pull itself together!!

sorry.....they give me good drugs now

 

[BZY247]

Timing done... A slightly better idle. Other symptoms are still present.

 

[4piknup]

Do you have a fiav (water pipes going to tb)? This allows extra air into engine when it is cold to allow higher idle.
My gsr tb has a stuffed fiav its in the shed, pos.

If you remove isc and with it plugged in, flick key from off to run, the tip should go in and out.

 

[4piknup]

Is it missing at idle?

Remove spark plug cover, and unplug all plug wires. Place wires back on plugs loosely. Start engine and with a insulated pair of pliers (and welding glove if you scared) slightly raise each plug lead in turn to hear if any difference to idle. You should clearly hear when each plug stops firing.

Not treating you like a newb, just others may read post with similar issues

 

[BMGTZ]

I recently replaced the battery in my evo one....seemed like to old one was stuffed. even with the new battery it was sluggish to spin over....not long after that i replaced the starter. all good after that. could be similar issue.

 

[4piknup]

Speaking of batteries brian (sorry to be off topic too) I just bought a lithium (lipo?) battery for the bike. Is 120cca and 470gm... is packed into std bike sized battery and bolts in. They say the box it filled with some fire proof stuff. 2 of these would run a car...

 

[BZY247]

ok quick update: car started better this morning after proper timing correction. But still far from normal.

Suspecting afm playing silly buggers though as its confirmed dead...

As for battery its a brand spanker deep cycle usa made item (can get name who ever is interested).

This weekend im getting a replacement afm so will see how she goes from there.
Will also check as per jacks instructions

 

[GeoKez]

Are these afm meters the vane type or hot wire? (I know, but I've never owned a mitsi that still had it attached)

I know with my Fucus, when running a K&N style filter, the afm (wire type) gets a fine coating of krud on it and gives me heaps of issues. A good clean with the associated can of 'stuff' gets it sorted for a little while.

If they run a vane type, this was a complete waste of your time.

 

[4piknup]

Nah geo they are a different thing altogether. Somthing about the air causes something to vibrate giving us the hz number. Thats why there is some issues with going to a hotwire conversion.
Also bits inside our maf are not compatible with the solvents in the cleaners. We shouldnt clean them. Therefore we shouldnt be using the oiled filters

 

[blackvr]

"Karmann vortex " MAF sensor airflow meter. Mr Karmann was a very clever guy ! Uses ultrasonic waves and involves airflow generating vortices within the AFM, and how the ultrasonic waves are distorted. Plenty of info on wikipedia. Its pretty important NOT to screw with removing the honeycomb mesh in the sensors,as its this mesh that aligns the airflow with the important vortice generator.

In my 20 years of working with Mitsubishis, I've only ever come across 2 faulty MAF sensors. You may be unlucky !

 

[GeoKez]

Wow. Learn something new every day. Will give me something to read about at lunch today. Cheers

 

[BZY247]

Alrightey, quick update.

We now moved on from sounding like a 13b to a 264 cammed sound instead thanks to a new afm installed.

Starts are still bit of a mission however i noticed on turn key (reds) there is no priming of the fuel pump... because its an aeromotive pump and has no checkvalve it NEEDS to prime. Hence the ****** starts where engine gets starved.

Looks like its time to put this pump on a relay of its own and see what will happen after that.

 

[BMGTZ]

the fuel pump doesnt run if the key is turned to reds without turning to start and back. once it hits the start position the relay will energise the pump....the pump will continue to run if the engine fires....if it doesnt they the pump will only run 5 seconds after the key is released from start position.

in the old days we used to have a few problems with fuel pressure bleed down...which seems to be what you are experiencing. to get around this we would just quickly turn the key to start for a second and release back to reds. that would get the pump top run long enough to prime to correct pressure....and fire injectors once. then start. doing it this way has been a way of life for a long time and I have easy starts

 

[BZY247]

Hmm very strange, before we removed the GSR wiring loom there was an extra relay and a 5th injector setup... with which it primed few seconds before starting.

So if evo3/gsr usualy does not prime, then how does one satisfy the needs of my aeromotive pump which by manufacturer requires to prime prior to start due to no checkvalve?

I tried to turn key quickly past reds and back but no game. Only starts pumping fuel while engine is turning.... Any sparkies here know a good place to wire-in a relay to trigger the pump when on reds for a few seconds to prime ?

 

[4piknup]

The ecu should handle it. Its the same wire that runs the pump.
You could cut the ecu out and run a switch to turn the pump on. Use the factory relay too

 

[BMGTZ]

I tried to turn key quickly past reds and back but no game. Only starts pumping fuel while engine is turning....

yep the cas needs to turn to start the whole deal working....just let it turn over once and stop. you should hear the pump running then stop.