Evo 1 GSR not starting, odd situation yet similar to countless others.

[Celeb3000]

Hey all, first post and looking for some help.

Evo 1 GSR - died on highway one day. Won't start.

Fuel pump now replaced. I won't go through the story of researching and basically doing whatever I have seen work for others i.e ignition check, fuel pump checks, etc.

Here is why mine is a bit odd or will help with an answer.

When I sit in the car and hold the mfi relay [or whatever name it should be, the gold box under the ashtray], then turn the key to on, one of the relays snaps down and the other does nothing. If i tap the top of the relay at the connection point it begins to make the fuel pump go, I let go and the pump stops.

As long as I hold this relay down with my finger I can then turn the key and the car will start, idle well, rev, etc. To me this rules out anything in the ignition system, potentially rules out the fuel system and really just leaves me at MFI, CAS or the ECU. I am thinking it isn't the ECU but simply a hunch.

Any ideas? Driving me crazy. The new CAS will be in on Tuesday and I can rule it out.

Thanks all!

 

[GSRWRC]

That kinda screams that the relay is poked if you ask me.

 

[Celeb3000]

That kinda screams that the relay is poked if you ask me.

We don't have many if any evo 1's up here. Do you know of any other similar cars i.e. talon/eclipse that have the same relay?

 

[BMGTZ]

try these....

http://www.factorychryslerparts.com/products/PLYMOUTH/E8T-08471---RELAY--Eng-Electronic-Control-MPI-Stamped-E8T08471--RELAY--Engine-Electronic-Control/4488707/MD175835.html

 

[khubner1]

Most any efi Mitsubishi runs the same relay try an eagle summit or dodge colt or Mitsubishi mirage ( all from same era pre 95)

 

[4piknup]

There is nothing fancy about this box. It is just 2 normal relays in a gold tin. One relay is for the ecu the other is for fuel pump.
Millions of mitsi based cars have this box or you could rewire it to take normal relays if you live in the desert.
Let us know how you go after replacement of the mfi relay

 

[Celeb3000]

Ok sounds good. Thanks everyone.

Have the relay and the cas coming now. Hope it's one of the two.

 

[EVO-00X]

And if all else fails, the genuine EVO 1 Engine Control Relay part number is MD175835.
You should be able to pick one up for around $50.

 

[Celeb3000]

So update.

Installed a different CAS [this one is not the black bubble platisc piece type but the flat grey metal type which from what I've read are to be compatible] They look almost identical and I lined up the two prong tab inside so that the one with the slit went to the correct spot.

Tried starting the car, same thing just cranking. Tried activating the relay by hand and now nothing at all, just more cranking.

So before anything was replaced I was able to start it with the original CAS if I held the relay down.


I had the different relay come in from a 1g talon tsi but the pins are completely different. Mine is a simply single opening with 8 tabs evenly spaced. The talon one is one large space and one small with 9 slightly smaller flat tabs/pins.


So my current questions.
1) With this other CAS [silver cover from a 1g talon] making things worse but the original being able to at least keep the car running, does that rule out my original CAS as the culprit.
2) Can the car run/idle/rev like how I have explained if the ECU is buggered even though I am activating the relay? [aka is the ecu still a culprit?]
3) Any confirmation that the black bubble CAS is swappable with the silver metal cover CAS.
4) Is the new relay compatible but I need to rewire it?

I will get exact part numbers in a few and will update this tonight for sure.

Thanks all, really thought I had this fixed.....


I don't know what to do. I don't have the male end to rewire the relay and am frustrated.

 

[Celeb3000]

The relay I was sent is E8T07071 - 3203

Oh and as a further update........ Regardless of which CAS I have installed, the side of the relay that used to click down as soon as I turned the key one notch before ignition, now doesn't do that anymore. So now not only does the fuel pump side have to be pressed down [which still does activate the fuel pump], the side which WAS working no longer is.

Could this mean good things that the relay is in fact on it's way out.

Is it worth the non-refundable $150.00 my dealership wants. No other stores have access to it and I'm not sure I have much more scrapyard energy to source this.........

 

[4piknup]

There is a roadraceengineering page about cas compatibilities.

What do you mean about holding the relay down it will start?
Check the wiring diagrams. I think the mfi relay provides power to a few things. For eg, the other day I was lookingat the isc and checking it was receiving power. It was and it continued to get power after the key was turned off for a few seconds until the mfi relay turned off (I could here it click off)
Can you unplug isc annd check that there is power when the key is at run position?
This will show if the mfi is connecting, if not, check the wiring diagram and test the mfi relay trigger wire earths when the key is on.
I suppose its possible the driver ic insidr the ecu that triggers the mfi relay is blown. They are the similar part to the isc drivers that I have changed out in several ecus.

 

[Celeb3000]

I will search out that page.

Under the gold cover are the two relays. Both have a hinge point that lift a copper piece off of a contact point. When I turn the key to one before ignition, the one relay [non fuel pump one] would snap down onto it's contact point automatically. If I tried to start the car it would just crank. If I depressed this contact point [fuel pump side] by hand the fuel pump would activate at that point and the car would start. The car is incapable of activating this fuel pump portion of the relay which from what I've read is supposed to happen on it's own during ignition and continue after.

I don't know the ISC acronym too if you don't mind.

I am very new to all of this, electrical testing is hands down my worst ability. Just trying to help out my brother in law so learning as I go.

All of this help is very much appreciated. I have ordered the relay from the dealer. Hope that fixes it.

The key here is that the car just suddenly died one day. To me that should rule out a large number of factors. It isn't as though I've engine swapped and spliced a stock wiring harness leaving me with troubles.

I have an engine that runs beautifully [with the relay held down] and a car that just shut down instantly while driving down the highway. I hope these two points rule most of the electronic bids. I was convinced CAS because I wouldn't imagine the ECU or a relay going while driving down the highway. Those in my mind are the car sitting for a long time problems. Again, newbie.

At least the brand new relay will confirm it isn't that :/ ...... I ordered MD175835 so I hope that is the 8 tab one like on the lancer. It looks identical to this one

http://www.lancerregister.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20793&stc=1&d=1084384578 [won't let me link pic]

 

[4piknup]

Perfect. Let me think about what you said

 

[Celeb3000]

Awesome, tx Jack.

I re-read my post, hope it didn't come across as know-it-all ish. I know pretty much zippo.....

Again, the help is much appreciated.

 

[4piknup]

Ok so the pump side of the relay is dead.
I dunno the wire colours involved or the pins as the manual isnt here with me.

With the relay plugged in and key on, the thin wires into the relay, there should be power to these pins. Can you check that?
With the relay discoed, there should be resistance between the thin wires (this measures the pull in coil on each relay) can you compare readings on each side of the relay?
The above will check the relay itself.

This last will check the ecu:
On the fuel pump side of the relay plug (relay unplugged)
One thin wire will have power with the key on. The other wire goes to the ecu. Unclip that wire from the plug then plug the mfi back in.
You should now have the mfi relay plugged into the loom and 1 wire not connected. Test that ecu wire has continuity to earth with the key on and your old cas plugged in and spinning.

Also pull up the ecu pinout and check continuity of that wire to the ecu or find the correct colour wire on the ecu and check.

Isc is idle speed controller. It will be fine for now.
Hope that is clear?

 

[Celeb3000]

Most make sense, will need to brush up on multimeter but I think I can work most of it out. Will do it tommorow as I don't have time tonight.

Should have all numbers posted early evening.

 

[khubner1]

it will either be the relay or the fuel pump trigger circuit in the ecu

 

[Celeb3000]

hoping the relay, I have a feeling that the ecu is going to be a nightmare to find. I haven't begun to source one out yet so maybe I will be surprised

 

[4piknup]

I can more than likely fix the ecu if it is not triggering. One of the ic would probably need replacing. I havent done a fuel pump ic, but I have done the idle speed controller ic and they are exactly the same chip. I have a few new ic as I bought a heap last time.
If your multimeter has a diode check function ▶l then you can check the ic yourself.

But odds are its the relay..

 

[Celeb3000]

Relay in tommorow morning, time will tell........ hope so.