Evo 1 GSR not starting, odd situation yet similar to countless others.

4GTuner

Help Support 4GTuner:

If its not the relay, I think you should become a donating member if you want anymore help from me.

No offence. Just trying to look after our little community here. And you are getting help that is pretty specialized once it gets to diagnosis of on board ecu faults.

Good luck tomorrow with the relay. And good work with your fault finding skills. You make it easier for us to help you. You have very sound faultfinding skills.
 
By all means stick around and contribute to the forum and learn more about you car so that one day you can offer the same help to other new members
 
Sorry for the wait, the part ended up being delayed a day.

Did NOT fix the vehicle. The part was exact match but has not solved anything. It just still cranks over and over. I can still put the old relay on, activate the fuel pump pressing the tab and the car will start and keep running while I hold it.

Jack, I will attempt the electric testing you posted about.




So now the question is, what activates the engine control relay fuel pump side. My understanding was CAS but would like input into suspect items. I have already swapped the CAS and that did nothing.

Second question, if the ECU is buggered would the car still be able to run like it has been with me holding the relay, better yet is there any way I can rule out ecu? [god i hope so...]

Thanks again all, I really thought we had this today.
 
There is something smart inside the ecu. It tells the driver ic to switch to earth. When this happens, the relay is triggered and the pump runs.
Afaik if the ecu knows the engine is turning, (cas signal) then it will trigger the pump.

Yes, if the driver ic is blown inside the ecu, then the pump may be the only thing affected.
There is ic drivers for all the ecu switching, 4 for isc, 1 each for ac, rad fan, wastegate, fuel pressure solonoid, o2 heater, carbon canister, ac fan.... etc. None of these items have feedback. If they blow, the car will run, the ecu will not even know they are blown..
I just changed a idle driver in my car other week, and it looked fine and didnt smell blown or anything but testing showed it was blown and replacing it fixed issue.

It would be nice to borrow a ecu to swap yours out, or put your ecu in another car to test..
Any evo or gsr would do you as only need to test the pump part.
 
The closest thing I will be able to find is a Talon, Eclipse or something else that might have a similar ecu to test it out.

I'm running MD187701-E2T38381.
 
Do the testing I mentioned before. Get out the volt meter...
Maybe there is not even power to the trigger side of the relay. Dunno if you dont test

Crack open the ecu and have a look for burnt things inside. But it would have stunk the car out for a few days if it blew hard.
 
So I have pulled the diagram. You will have power to the trigger side of the relay as it is powered by the fat wire that runs the pump.
Do you have a thin wire in pin 5 of relay plug? It maybe white with red trace. This is the trigger wire for the pump.
 
So that is the wire the ecu earths to make the pump run.
It needs to have 12v all the way to the ecu when key is on. So unplug that plug on the ecu. It should be on pin8 on ecu and check its connection and that power is getting there.
You could put a paperclip in pin8 and earth it to test if pump will run (key on) If it wont then you have a faulty wire and I would just run another next to the loom.
If it does run then its closer to the ecu. You need to check the ecu is earthing that wire. That is the bit I said before about pulling the wire from the mfi relay plug and using ohm meter to test it.
 
Earthing and grounding are the same this I presume? In which case stick a paper clip in pin 8, ground/earth it to something metal, then try to start. Am I on the right track. My electrical is just a simple understanding of

live or power
ground
signal


You got me thinking too, could it be as simple as the ecu it'self is not grounded/earthed?

Yet again, I am not very skilled with electrical. What you are saying makes sense but because of my knowledge I would rather double check.

p.s where is the donation spot for the site.
 
Earthing grounding. Same same.
Unplug the ecu plug just one is fine
Paparclip in pin 8 (check its white/red first), key on.
Touch it to earth. Fuel relay/mfi relay should click and pump run. No need to crank engine.

Everything else works so your earths should be ok?
There is one right next to the ecu, another on firewall under bonnet near throttle body. By all means clean them up
 
Membership is in the store section. Im on my phone so its probably different. Is $20 and paypal works.

I wont be a hard ass. I help you if I can if you join or not. I liked canada last time I went.
Just hope we on right track
 
So...

I cleaned 3x grounds in the engine bay. There was one ground point behind the throttle body as said which had 1x ground from the large loom running along firewall as well as one other which was bolted to the throttle cable assembly. [wouldn't have been touched so shouldn't be issue]. There was another attached on the back side of the timing belt area on the block right near where the timing belt covers [upper and lower] come together. This ground went across the back of the timing belt cover and bolts two one of the two bolts holding a silver cannister, approximately the size of a red bull can that is bolted directly over the wheel well. Has other solid steel lines coming out of it. This is simply for information that those points are now very clean.

That being said,

I pulled the largest of the 3 yellow ecu connectors off of the ecu, left the other two plugged into ecu. Pin 8 as explained was the same white w/red stripe. I turned the key to on [not ignition] at this point and the left side [non fuel pump] relay began to buzz like crazy like a bee. [the copper tab which normally slams down on turning the key was vibrating rapidly] The right [fuel pump side] did nothing. I took the paper clip and inserted one end into pin eight of the yellow connector I had removed, took the other end and made a fish hook inserting it into one of the screw holes that the ecu normally bolts to [ecu is dangling at this point]. Turn the key to on and nothing from the fuel pump side, just the buzzing from the non fuel pump side. I attempted touching the grounding end of the paperclip to other metal points with no result. During all of this I had tapped the fuel pump relay side just to see if the fuel pump would chirp which it did. No effect from the paperclip and I'm sure I had it inserted enough.

All three bolt points for the ecu are on the same piece of metal so I assume I could ground to any of them. Also, all ground locations for the ecu are immaculate, completely clean and corrosion free.

Unrelated there were two grounds near the ecu, one has two black with grey striped wires that emerges from the same loom as all of the ecu wires. These two wires converge into one grounding washer. There is another ground that looks to come from the wiring above and to the left of the glove box which looks to control the a/c? There is an actuating arm made of plastic with a metal arm the size of a pencil which can move back and forth. It always seems to click like it is stuck when I turn the car on, unless I switch the fans on at which point the stuck clicking stops. I do not need a fix for this, simply more observation incase it leads to a conclusion.
 
Jack strikes again. Lucky they are not selling shirts anymore!

(You related to Tim Shaw from Demtel? Almost as pushy on the sales front!!)
 
I respect that though. Good to show desire to keep the community going. Probably going to snag some of the stickers too.
 
From what you've just described sounds like you have no power to the fuel pump side of the efi relay trigger circuit. At this point I would be getting your test light/multimeter out and checking for power on each of the pins to the relay I'm thinking there should be 4 live wires. You need to find the one that powers the fuel
Pump trigger circuit

And stickers are a great way to support us without becoming a paid member
 

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