I thought it must have been the wheels as well Chris, but I threw on some stock EVO OZ racing rims up front this afternoon. They are 15x6" and 46mm offset. My wheel track then dropped to 1485mm.... but this is still 35mm over the stock 1450mm EVO 1 spec documented wheel track. I just dont get it. I have EVO 1 everything up front except the castor bush and coil over suspension. Can these 2 things really throw out the wheel track by 17.5mm each side on a stock EVO 1? :blink: Got me fukd??? I was thinking maybe the K-frame would be bent but there was no problem with bolting everything onto it. Then I thought maybe the strut brace might be squeezing the tops in too much - but that cant be it either can it?
Get the tape measure out! EVO I-III & GSR Wheel Track discussion
- Thread starter EVO-00X
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Craig_CD9A
Member
Have you had the suspension aligned since putting in the evo suspension? After swapping out my control arms to the cast ones my front wheels had toe out of 26mm on each side.
The Godfather
Banned
seriously rob i think its time you ditched that "engineer" he sounds like a bit of a whinger...
you should try Kevin Humphreys in Wyong near my place, he isnt dodgey - far from it, but he doesnt pick at every little thing, ive used him before and it was all done in a few mins, basic checks, db, height, tyre clearances etc etc, you name a car and what motor you want to put in it and he will tell you from memory what needs to be done to make it pass.
also your engineer should have books on the track specs of every car, its not upto you to chase these things up. he should know all this
im not even using him but he is giving me the shits :fuuuuu:
you should try Kevin Humphreys in Wyong near my place, he isnt dodgey - far from it, but he doesnt pick at every little thing, ive used him before and it was all done in a few mins, basic checks, db, height, tyre clearances etc etc, you name a car and what motor you want to put in it and he will tell you from memory what needs to be done to make it pass.
also your engineer should have books on the track specs of every car, its not upto you to chase these things up. he should know all this
im not even using him but he is giving me the shits :fuuuuu:
hahaha... an engineer cant engineer your car properly in a few minutes :lol: It can take a couple weeks at least chasing up info and proving that your car meets the requirements. Remember, Ive converted from FWD coupe to AWD coupe with heaps of in betweens, not going from a 1.8 GSR AWD turbo to a 2 litre GSR AWD turbo like you, which doesnt involve as much scrutiny.
An engineer's job is to audit the modifications against the ADR's and LVM Act and also to ask you questions about your mods which helps him understand what you have done so that he can explore it. The extra wheel track is nothing to do with engineering, its about how the hell does my car end up with a heap more track than a stock EVO 1 when I'm using a stock EVO 1 front end setup.
The ADR rules state you cant go over stock track by 25mm.... so I want to get the answers and have it sorted before he looks at it and asks me 'why is your track far greater than a stock EVO track? I have no answer for it at the moment and its making several guys scratch their heads?
Everything else is sweet, just that this has got me stumped.
An engineer's job is to audit the modifications against the ADR's and LVM Act and also to ask you questions about your mods which helps him understand what you have done so that he can explore it. The extra wheel track is nothing to do with engineering, its about how the hell does my car end up with a heap more track than a stock EVO 1 when I'm using a stock EVO 1 front end setup.
The ADR rules state you cant go over stock track by 25mm.... so I want to get the answers and have it sorted before he looks at it and asks me 'why is your track far greater than a stock EVO track? I have no answer for it at the moment and its making several guys scratch their heads?
Everything else is sweet, just that this has got me stumped.
The Godfather
Banned
rob-it only take a few mins when the engineer knows the ADR's by memoryEVO-00X said:
also it was a 1.8L fwd rx wagon that i made awd with a ej20t and rex running gear
seriously you should give kevin humphreys a call- it will be a more pleasant and faster certification, and more professional, kevin has been in the game for about 50 odd yrs, he is like mid 60's or 70 something lol, he has been racing cars and engineering/fabricating them etc, many people know him.
you've been dealing with this other guy for like over a yr now? he's not paying off. you gotta get with the best
at the rate this other engineer's going im gonna be fully tuned and written off by the time you're on the road :lol:
JAP63
E III Recaro Pilot
What exactly and how exactly are you measuring the track?
To be fair, the wheels should come off, the wheelnuts should be wound down on the studs and two squares placed against the hub faces..then measure between them.
Once you have this, add the known values to it for the offset
Are you doing it with tyres on etc?
To be fair, the wheels should come off, the wheelnuts should be wound down on the studs and two squares placed against the hub faces..then measure between them.
Once you have this, add the known values to it for the offset
Are you doing it with tyres on etc?
lol @ a few minutes, Adrian you stirrer :lol:. I've only been engineering my car since December and most of the delay is caused on my part. I know how dodgey your engineer is, the kind the RTA remove from their signatory list for passing cars like yours lol
If you wanna see how much effort Ive gone through I'll show you the next time you are over - you will freak! I have had to prove ADR compliance for heaps of stuff. Imagine providing evidence and having the engineer look at a brake test, emissons test, induction noise level test, induction system, intercooler positon and mounts, exhaust noise level test, weighbridge, wheel and tyre diamter, wheel track width, tyre load and speed ratings against compliance plates, weld inspections on all the custom work (floorpan, mounts, centre driveshaft mount etc), check ADR compliance of brake lines, brake rotors, brake calipers, seats, seat anchorages, seat rails, fuel lines, steering wheel, steering column and steering system, emissions system, intake system, aftermarket suspension, suspension heights, suspension clearances, lighting, engine installation, mounts, gearbox installation and mounts, K-frame and crossmembers utilised, front bar protrusions, bonnet protrusions, interior instruments and speedometer calibration, and all the rest of the things normally inspected via a normal pink slip. If your engineer can do all of that in a few minutes and gather all the info he needs and writes up a certificate addressing all the above in a few minutes then he's Superman :lol:
Ask Frankie, when an engineered car gets busted for being dodgey by the RTA then the RTA audits whomever last certified the vehicle or whomever issued the last roadworthy and usually by the last 20 cars or so (and yes, they do conduct audits as I've organised audits before on engineers and authorised vehicle inspection stations when I was working in the RTA Vehicle Regs dept). It's happened to two engineers in the Hunter Region in the last few years and its seen many owners of cars that had engineer certificates sent a letter to take their car to the RTA inspection station to get audited. Basically the certificates those two engineers had done wasnt worth the paper it was printed on. There's no way I was taking my car to a substandard engineer as I want to make sure it meets ADR's and above all be safe. To be sure of this I have been dealing with a 60+ yr old engineer who is well respected by the RTA and in the Hunter Region. He's heavily involved with engineering trucks and heavy machinery mainly for the heavy vehicle industry and the mines. He also does light vehicles. When his signature is on the paper, no one questions it as they know he's a thorough buggar Several guys are now going to approach him to engineer their cars as they know the value of having him do it. Anyways, dont go crashing your car until we go for a cruise mate
Oh, Jap63, yep, you can measure wheel track from centre of tyre to centre of tyre. You dont need to take the wheels off and use blocks
If you wanna see how much effort Ive gone through I'll show you the next time you are over - you will freak! I have had to prove ADR compliance for heaps of stuff. Imagine providing evidence and having the engineer look at a brake test, emissons test, induction noise level test, induction system, intercooler positon and mounts, exhaust noise level test, weighbridge, wheel and tyre diamter, wheel track width, tyre load and speed ratings against compliance plates, weld inspections on all the custom work (floorpan, mounts, centre driveshaft mount etc), check ADR compliance of brake lines, brake rotors, brake calipers, seats, seat anchorages, seat rails, fuel lines, steering wheel, steering column and steering system, emissions system, intake system, aftermarket suspension, suspension heights, suspension clearances, lighting, engine installation, mounts, gearbox installation and mounts, K-frame and crossmembers utilised, front bar protrusions, bonnet protrusions, interior instruments and speedometer calibration, and all the rest of the things normally inspected via a normal pink slip. If your engineer can do all of that in a few minutes and gather all the info he needs and writes up a certificate addressing all the above in a few minutes then he's Superman :lol:
Ask Frankie, when an engineered car gets busted for being dodgey by the RTA then the RTA audits whomever last certified the vehicle or whomever issued the last roadworthy and usually by the last 20 cars or so (and yes, they do conduct audits as I've organised audits before on engineers and authorised vehicle inspection stations when I was working in the RTA Vehicle Regs dept). It's happened to two engineers in the Hunter Region in the last few years and its seen many owners of cars that had engineer certificates sent a letter to take their car to the RTA inspection station to get audited. Basically the certificates those two engineers had done wasnt worth the paper it was printed on. There's no way I was taking my car to a substandard engineer as I want to make sure it meets ADR's and above all be safe. To be sure of this I have been dealing with a 60+ yr old engineer who is well respected by the RTA and in the Hunter Region. He's heavily involved with engineering trucks and heavy machinery mainly for the heavy vehicle industry and the mines. He also does light vehicles. When his signature is on the paper, no one questions it as they know he's a thorough buggar
Several guys are now going to approach him to engineer their cars as they know the value of having him do it. Anyways, dont go crashing your car until we go for a cruise mate Oh, Jap63, yep, you can measure wheel track from centre of tyre to centre of tyre. You dont need to take the wheels off and use blocks
If you messure centre tyre to centre tyre you will get mixed measured due to incorrect offset, tyre size etc etc
Only way ive seen it done was on a ramp bolted to blocks then lowered to get preasure on the shocks...
Remember also when you lower a car your rear wheels have neg camber
Only way ive seen it done was on a ramp bolted to blocks then lowered to get preasure on the shocks...
Remember also when you lower a car your rear wheels have neg camber
JAP63
E III Recaro Pilot
I think the most un-effected measure would be rims with no tyres...so to speak....
Then the centre of the rim would be established.
The method i mentioned would have to work as well.
Im sure RTA have a quick method
Then the centre of the rim would be established.
The method i mentioned would have to work as well.
Im sure RTA have a quick method
What-the? Mik-e you're on drugs man. I measured Frankie's EVO II front end today from centre tyre to centre tyre and its 1465mm which is exactly whats written everywhere that an EVO II/III should be. Same goes with Angelo's coupe when it was getting engineered with the GTi specs.
Go measure the centre of the tyre to the centre of the tyre on your stock white GLXi coupe and I bet you its 1450mm... lol :lol:
Go measure the centre of the tyre to the centre of the tyre on your stock white GLXi coupe and I bet you its 1450mm... lol :lol:
Well fuk me, you can help me out little brother as I just remembered! lol. You got an EVO 1 K-frame and lower control arms in your coupe too eh? So technically you have the same front end setup as my coupe. I'm thinking of chucking my front wheels on your coupe and measuring your wheel track then to see if its the same as mine Yeah!! That'll be the sanity check as you got same front end as me. Fark, why didnt I think of it before! You do come in handy sometimes bitch! lol
Yeah!! That'll be the sanity check as you got same front end as me. Fark, why didnt I think of it before! You do come in handy sometimes bitch! lolThe Godfather
Banned
man that was a monster of a post lol GODZILLA!!!EVO-00X said:lol @ a few minutes, Adrian you stirrer :lol:. I've only been engineering my car since December and most of the delay is caused on my part. I know how dodgey your engineer is, the kind the RTA remove from their signatory list for passing cars like yours lol
If you wanna see how much effort Ive gone through I'll show you the next time you are over - you will freak! I have had to prove ADR compliance for heaps of stuff. Imagine providing evidence and having the engineer look at a brake test, emissons test, induction noise level test, induction system, intercooler positon and mounts, exhaust noise level test, weighbridge, wheel and tyre diamter, wheel track width, tyre load and speed ratings against compliance plates, weld inspections on all the custom work (floorpan, mounts, centre driveshaft mount etc), check ADR compliance of brake lines, brake rotors, brake calipers, seats, seat anchorages, seat rails, fuel lines, steering wheel, steering column and steering system, emissions system, intake system, aftermarket suspension, suspension heights, suspension clearances, lighting, engine installation, mounts, gearbox installation and mounts, K-frame and crossmembers utilised, front bar protrusions, bonnet protrusions, interior instruments and speedometer calibration, and all the rest of the things normally inspected via a normal pink slip. If your engineer can do all of that in a few minutes and gather all the info he needs and writes up a certificate addressing all the above in a few minutes then he's Superman :lol:
Ask Frankie, when an engineered car gets busted for being dodgey by the RTA then the RTA audits whomever last certified the vehicle or whomever issued the last roadworthy and usually by the last 20 cars or so (and yes, they do conduct audits as I've organised audits before on engineers and authorised vehicle inspection stations when I was working in the RTA Vehicle Regs dept). It's happened to two engineers in the Hunter Region in the last few years and its seen many owners of cars that had engineer certificates sent a letter to take their car to the RTA inspection station to get audited. Basically the certificates those two engineers had done wasnt worth the paper it was printed on. There's no way I was taking my car to a substandard engineer as I want to make sure it meets ADR's and above all be safe. To be sure of this I have been dealing with a 60+ yr old engineer who is well respected by the RTA and in the Hunter Region. He's heavily involved with engineering trucks and heavy machinery mainly for the heavy vehicle industry and the mines. He also does light vehicles. When his signature is on the paper, no one questions it as they know he's a thorough buggar
Oh, Jap63, yep, you can measure wheel track from centre of tyre to centre of tyre. You dont need to take the wheels off and use blocks
you pretty much described my engineer, 60+, well respected by the rta etc etc.. Kevin humphreys would have to be one of the most well known & respected engineers in aus
i dont know what you're stressing about, i would kill for an extra 50mm track lol, as long as your car fits between the lanes on the road it should be fine... i think it was last week on top gear they said the lambo murcielago was the widest car ever in australia
Make Lamborghini
Model 2002 Murcielago
Powertrain Layout Mid Engine / AWD
Base Price Not Available
Dimensions
WheelBase 2665 mm / 104.9 in
Length 4580 mm / 180.3 in
Height 1135 mm / 44.7 in
Width 2045 mm / 80.5 in
Weight 1650 kg / 3638 lbs
Front / Rear Track F 1635 mm / 64.4 in
R 1695 mm / 66.7 in
have your wheels already passed? if he does measure the track just tell him its the wheels/camber? make something up...! you can do it rob i believe in you..
p.s. im booked in for this friday with Hitman, so move your ass!!
JAP63
E III Recaro Pilot
I cant stil lfigure out how in hell my track came up less than stock.
Im gonna measure that shit again.
If my current track is 1477 somehow, im just over legal, at 27mm over.
Im gonna measure that shit again.
If my current track is 1477 somehow, im just over legal, at 27mm over.
The Godfather
Banned
ok, all done..FRANK-E said:
thanks for the use of your thread rob
JAP63 said:
Na man, you're fine as you have an EVOII/III which has a stock OEM track of 1465mm front, and 1470mm rear. Your 1477mm up front is only 12mm wider than stock so well within the 26mm legal limit
(Remember GSR and EVO I track is only 1450F & 1460R) Track is determined by your wheel offset. If you have a 6" wheel with 46 offset, and a 7" wheel with 46 offset, the wheel track will still be the same as the centre of the wheel stays in the same spot. The 1" extra width is evenly split 1/2" to the left and 1/2" to the right from the centre of your tyre (the centre of the tyre doesnt move as its the same offset). So you will lose 1/2" clearance to the strut and need another 1/2" clearance in your wheel arches.
BUT, as soon as you change the offset of your rims it adds the amount of offset (in mm) to your track and throws your track out. A really good calculator with GUI is here: http://www.morfed.net/wheel-offset-calculator/
