Looking for a 4G63 to rebuild.
- Thread starter GeoKez
- Start date
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Too right mate, we've been having good fun this year.
I have just about finished what would have been your next job if you had of kept it mate, finally fitting that bigger turbo. It wont be the 'perfect' upgrade, as it's the turbo that is going to go on to the 4G63, but should at least see it holding boost up to redline. If I get it tuned up ok before hand, I'll post the video up from this coming Thursday night's MacRae and see if it makes much of a difference.
Thinking out aloud now, what parts of the tune do you reckon will need tweaking with the bigger turbo. I have allowed boost up to 20psi after 3500rpm dropping off after 6000rpm, fueling and ignition is mapped to 22psi+ through to 7500rpm. The injectors are running at 90% at full load at 20psi, so may have to drop the boost back depending on what the wideband says. Really just guessing shit now, I'll post up how it actually goes sometime over the weekend.
Long weekend!!! Woot!!!!
I have just about finished what would have been your next job if you had of kept it mate, finally fitting that bigger turbo. It wont be the 'perfect' upgrade, as it's the turbo that is going to go on to the 4G63, but should at least see it holding boost up to redline. If I get it tuned up ok before hand, I'll post the video up from this coming Thursday night's MacRae and see if it makes much of a difference.
Thinking out aloud now, what parts of the tune do you reckon will need tweaking with the bigger turbo. I have allowed boost up to 20psi after 3500rpm dropping off after 6000rpm, fueling and ignition is mapped to 22psi+ through to 7500rpm. The injectors are running at 90% at full load at 20psi, so may have to drop the boost back depending on what the wideband says. Really just guessing shit now, I'll post up how it actually goes sometime over the weekend.
Long weekend!!! Woot!!!!
4piknup
master of none
Monitor/get and log the wideband and log the knock.
add spark where there is no knock, take it away if there is.
adjust fuel to the ratio that you want. leaner is more power but closer to melting piston.
add spark where there is no knock, take it away if there is.
adjust fuel to the ratio that you want. leaner is more power but closer to melting piston.
4piknup
master of none
there is a couple of guys on here screaming for a gearbox, if yours is for sale
Atters would be creaming himself at the mention of the gearbox!
Well, turbo is in. All went fairly smoothly. Needed to trim up the actuator bracket, new zorst flange, banjo bolt for the oil feed line, added some water line plumbing and had to chop the cold side outlet pipe and spin it 180*. The rest of it was bolt-on. Spent the most time die grinding the stock 93 zorst manifold out to match the turbo, I now own a f@cked out SCA die grinder, if you were thinking of spending $50 on one........ Don't.
I took it for a razz and it goes as expected. The ECU tries to limit boost depending on rpm, and that has become much more noticeable, which I didn't expect. My best guess is that because the wastegate is much bigger, it is dumping too much gas when it tries to limit boost. So when it hits say 14psi @ 3500, it throws the wastegate open so boost bleeds down to about 10psi, then as it revs over 4000 the gate shuts and the boost pours on till 20psi then it flicks the gate again and bounces around about there. I'll need to look at the PID's in the target boost map and smooth it out a bit. It has defiantly lost the kick in the ass tourque pull from low rpm, but it's holding boost and pulling lots harder passed 6000 which was the whole point of the exercise so I'm happy with the result.
I'll add some pics up a bit later. Thanks for your inputs and advice fellas, it has been a big help knowing what to expect.
Well, turbo is in. All went fairly smoothly. Needed to trim up the actuator bracket, new zorst flange, banjo bolt for the oil feed line, added some water line plumbing and had to chop the cold side outlet pipe and spin it 180*. The rest of it was bolt-on. Spent the most time die grinding the stock 93 zorst manifold out to match the turbo, I now own a f@cked out SCA die grinder, if you were thinking of spending $50 on one........ Don't.
I took it for a razz and it goes as expected. The ECU tries to limit boost depending on rpm, and that has become much more noticeable, which I didn't expect. My best guess is that because the wastegate is much bigger, it is dumping too much gas when it tries to limit boost. So when it hits say 14psi @ 3500, it throws the wastegate open so boost bleeds down to about 10psi, then as it revs over 4000 the gate shuts and the boost pours on till 20psi then it flicks the gate again and bounces around about there. I'll need to look at the PID's in the target boost map and smooth it out a bit. It has defiantly lost the kick in the ass tourque pull from low rpm, but it's holding boost and pulling lots harder passed 6000 which was the whole point of the exercise so I'm happy with the result.
I'll add some pics up a bit later. Thanks for your inputs and advice fellas, it has been a big help knowing what to expect.
4piknup
master of none
probably the same guys that won't buy a shirt
BMGTZ
Grumpy old man from the school of hard knocks
buy a sticker Jack....
4piknup
master of none
yea, with my shirt refund. :-C
when is your birthday Brian? I get you one as well. oh, how many 4g you got?
BMGTZ
Grumpy old man from the school of hard knocks
4piknup
master of none
Happy birthday for then.
I will start saving
I will start saving
Maybe I could buy a cheap arse t-shirt from red dot and stick a sticker on it, $10 total spend, that'll suit my style!
Car did my head in today trying to tune in the turbo. RPW had set up a closed loop tuning table which got me really confused. They had set the boost actuator solenoid at 15% duty cycle at 17psi, me thinking 'ok, solenoid opens waste gate about 15% to stop over boost when the closed loop control starts at around 17psi'. Took most of the day for my dumb arse to realize that 15% duty cycle actually opens the waste gate to 85%. So I'm trying to work out why every time I hit 20psi, boost suddenly drops to 12psi, then screams back up to 20, then drops, then boosts...... Gave me self good dose of whiplash.
So, long story short, I learnt a lot about the difference of these two turbos setup on the same car. At 19psi, the TD04 needed the wastegate at 100% open to hold at 19, the TD05 is still shut solid to make 19psi, then needs very fine actuator control after that to maintain 20.
God, what I'd give for a set of rollers at home.
And a t-shirt.
Car did my head in today trying to tune in the turbo. RPW had set up a closed loop tuning table which got me really confused. They had set the boost actuator solenoid at 15% duty cycle at 17psi, me thinking 'ok, solenoid opens waste gate about 15% to stop over boost when the closed loop control starts at around 17psi'. Took most of the day for my dumb arse to realize that 15% duty cycle actually opens the waste gate to 85%. So I'm trying to work out why every time I hit 20psi, boost suddenly drops to 12psi, then screams back up to 20, then drops, then boosts...... Gave me self good dose of whiplash.
So, long story short, I learnt a lot about the difference of these two turbos setup on the same car. At 19psi, the TD04 needed the wastegate at 100% open to hold at 19, the TD05 is still shut solid to make 19psi, then needs very fine actuator control after that to maintain 20.
God, what I'd give for a set of rollers at home.
And a t-shirt.
Got it sorted finally. Who loves graphs?
View attachment working boost_02_speed.pdf
View attachment working boost_02_speed_TPS.pdf
View attachment working rpm_boost_BCV.pdf
View attachment working rpm_boost_injector duty.pdf
I love graphs
View attachment working boost_02_speed.pdf
View attachment working boost_02_speed_TPS.pdf
View attachment working rpm_boost_BCV.pdf
View attachment working rpm_boost_injector duty.pdf
I love graphs
Well, after the MacRae on Thursday night, turns out boost control is not even close to being sorted. Boost was oscillating from 20ish down to 15ish back to 20ish and so on, about 3 or 4 times through each gear at WOT. I know it’s just the PID settings in the Haltech, but it’s becoming a royal PITA to get sorted.
The TD05 16g has made the car faster even with the above issues. Our last times around that same track were 2.53’s, this time we were running 2.44’s. A little bit of that would be my confidence with the car, but most of it is the stronger top end pull. Yes, there are two corners where you do notice the increased lag. Not as bad as I was expecting, but still bad, making 19psi at 4000ish. I have it on good advice from Brian ‘You’re not revving it hard enough’ that I still don’t rev the car hard enough. It’s a mental thing left over from running pinto’s, they would start to destroy themselves at 7800 so I have this mental block to run anything high like that. I realise that these two power plants are chalk and cheese, and just need to get over it.
Anyways, work has started on the new donk. Machining has been done (thumbs up to Harris, did a good job), and I’m pottering along assembling the bottom end. Photos have no real meaning, just keeping a record of what I’m up to. Also an opportunity for you guys to scream..... "your doin' it wrong!!"
The TD05 16g has made the car faster even with the above issues. Our last times around that same track were 2.53’s, this time we were running 2.44’s. A little bit of that would be my confidence with the car, but most of it is the stronger top end pull. Yes, there are two corners where you do notice the increased lag. Not as bad as I was expecting, but still bad, making 19psi at 4000ish. I have it on good advice from Brian ‘You’re not revving it hard enough’ that I still don’t rev the car hard enough. It’s a mental thing left over from running pinto’s, they would start to destroy themselves at 7800 so I have this mental block to run anything high like that. I realise that these two power plants are chalk and cheese, and just need to get over it.
Anyways, work has started on the new donk. Machining has been done (thumbs up to Harris, did a good job), and I’m pottering along assembling the bottom end. Photos have no real meaning, just keeping a record of what I’m up to. Also an opportunity for you guys to scream..... "your doin' it wrong!!"
Good result on Thursday , I saw your times compared to before and you guys are going well. I know a guy at Harris engines so you should be ok there , he's a good builder his names Scott. The engine in the car now was all done by performance modifications I know you were asking about them earlier in the thread , my mate that's a boat engine builder only uses them. Good luck in the Targa south west .
Thanks Ben. Harris seem to have done a good job at a fair price, but Performance Mods should have got the job, just about everybody that knows ive got an engine being machined has told me I shoulda gone to them. I knows for next time.
A couple more pictures showing clearences with the stroker crank.
A poofteenth of the bores
Main cradles were good
CC'd #1 last night. Should be 2301cc and 8.5:1
A couple more pictures showing clearences with the stroker crank.
A poofteenth of the bores
Main cradles were good
CC'd #1 last night. Should be 2301cc and 8.5:1
