QLD - Toughest anti-hooning laws in Australia.

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EVO-00X

4G63T AWD CC COUPE
Joined
Jun 17, 2005
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Hey guys,
Transcript of the Bill and discussions at this link: http://www.parliamen...b-13feb2013.pdf . Ive also attached the pdf in this post.
Worthy of a full read.

There's good bit like this in it that doesnt seem to sound right... but its the numbers the Police have presented:

Mr WATTS:
Again, I just wanted to clarify the numbers you have given and this is to give some reassurance to car enthusiasts. Of 49,000-something tickets that were issued, there were 10,000 impoundments and only 23 of those were for illegal modifications?

Chief Supt Morrow:
Correct.

Mr WATTS:
It would seem that those figures do not bear out some of what has been suggested in the correspondence from car enthusiasts in terms of being targeted.

Chief Supt Morrow:
That is what we thought. That is the conclusion we came to. They certainly were not overrepresented. I think 0.2 per cent of all vehicles seized are because of illegal modification. I guess we are at a bit of a loss to understand that particular concern from car enthusiasts.

Mr WATTS:
The figures that you have given certainly do not bear that out.
 

Attachments

  • trns-pb-13feb2013.pdf
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I read most of that, and it's all BS.

I think Chief Sup Morrow, if allowed to speak frankly and outside of his alignment with company policy would agree.

He' not aware of who's paying for any of it, or how exactly it is going to make the roads safer. But he knows exactly how many cars were pipped for illegal mods....... But this scheme isn't aimed at car enthusiasts.... honest!

The question Mr Watts should have asked was "How many of the 10,000 cars impounded were modified?" I think that would give a clearer indication as to what the police have been told to target, and the objective of the legislation.

A whole concept born from people who believe that doing 15km/h less than everybody else on a freeway is safe.

Where's my soapbox!!???
 
Good point. Only a few for "illegal" mods. But really, how many of the impounded cars were modified legally
 
Seriously they are going about it all wrong!
the police should be going to these car "meets" not to impound or fine but to educate.
this recent "downshift meeting that got closed off and 90 % of the cars had a check up by the transport dept. is a good example

why not have a few officers actually walk through the meetings talking and explaining why that spoiler that is 25mm off the ground is a bad idea
and the 5* of negative camber on the rear of your honda is not safe for driving on the street.

I don't mean to take down rego plates neither. Obviously if it is down right dangerious tell the person, it will need to be towed away today as they cannot let it be driven. But Educate and be seen being proactive!

"Mate you better get that fixed or next time we see you i wont have a choice I will have to fine you" blah blah blah etc etc
at least they would have the details on what needs to be done to get it up to code. with out the $300 fine.

yeah sure they are not going to go through every car nor every mod but if it sticks out like dog nuts then I'm sure you would be told.

If you are dumb enf to hoon or get caught rooting around then .. well ..do the crime .. pay the fine.

I know I have had my car done over by the police and now it is legal! (except the exhaust 107db) and I have an envelope in the glove box with all the paperwork for the mods and a current RWC. I've been pulled over 3 times and my 320kw GSR with front splitter, canards, big brakes, harnesses and race seat dont even get questioned.

Maybe it is because I'm an old fart or maybe it is because I dont do dumb shit in dumb places and I'm not a smart arse.

I'm sure there are some officers out there that are bits of car nuts that would jump at the chance to look at some hot cars and educate some of the guys what will and wont get them nicked!

just my 2 cents
 
I got pulled over on the way to the last downshift by the black VE unmarked ute, me and about 10 other cars...

Surprisingly, I got away defect free (which would be a first :) ) A mate in a very tidy 180 got told to f**k off go home don't come back, the first thing that came out of the officers mouth was "Have you ever been in trouble fr having a modified vehicle" mate's response was "no", his reply "Well you about to get in trouble for it today". He got done for "exhaust sticking too far out", "not enough padding on the seat", than the usual ones, too low, too noisy (he measured it on a fucked surface, the car does actually sit 100mm on FLAT Ground, and he didn't noise test it correctly either, held the dB reader right up to the exhaust tip (should be 3 m back and at 30% engine load if i remember correctly?). He decided it would be a good idea to rev it to redline after the car had been sitting off for near an hour, He will be going to court, and questioning the cop if he had the correct certifications to even be touching anything.

It's not really the fact that we got pulled over, it's the attitude of the cops, them having no idea what they're talking about and targeting us when we were not doing anything wrong, just driving to a car meet to "do it properly". When the other cop started looking over my car, he was having a good look under the hood, first question was, "does it have an external gate" first thing I said was "no, it is the standard turbo", got the smurkish reply "yea, that's what they all say" WTF!, it's standard, and idiot could work that out, he checked his book out a few times, and went on to the pod, and so on and so fourth, I think he kinda got the shits when he couldn't find anything to get me on lol. Could of got me for too low, but he didn't have the measuring stick, and it doesn't look all that low, its just the exhaust that hangs low.

Cops seemed to be more obsessed with their ticket books than the rule books these days, write the tickets, next please.
 
thats the problem the police officers are not qualified to be making judgement on the mechanical fitnes of the vehicle yes they have their little measuring devices for to low. and too loud but too loud can be debunk in 30 seconds by pulling out an adr's handbook and proving the test isn't being carried out properly.(it can not be properly carried out on the street.) i'm glad i wasn't at that particular downshift meet probably would have got screwed. (currently have no back seat it's getting reupholstered) you have to ask if they aren't qualified to be judging the vehicle how can they be allowed to issue fines upon their unqualified observations.an external gate isn't illegal having an external gate that dumps to atmo (screamer is)

i deal with transport on a regular basis as a cabbie and when you dealing with a transport inspection officer you know that what they are picking you for is right because they are all qualified mechanics/engineers and deal with these things daily.

for to loud they must follow this as set forth by the ADR's
1. Measuring Instruments
1.1 A sound level meter of high precision complying at least with the specifications of Publication No 651 (1979) - “Precision sound level meters” of the International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC), or Type 1 of Australian Standard 1259-1982 - “Sound Level Meters”, concerning the characteristics of sound level meters, shall be used. Measurement shall be carried out with a weighting network and a time constant conforming to “curve A” and the “fast response” respectively.​
1.2 The sound level meter shall be calibrated against a standard noise source immediately before and after each series of test runs. If the meter reading obtained from either of these calibrations deviates by more than 1dB(A) from the corresponding reading taken at the time of the last free-field calibration the test shall be considered invalid. The actual deviation shall be recorded.​
1.3 The rotational speed of the engine shall be measured by an independent tachometer whose accuracy is within 3 per cent of the actual speed of rotation.​

3. Procedure for Stationary Vehicles
(Refer to diagram - Section 4)
3.1 Requirements for tests on stationary vehicles.
3.1.1 Tests on stationary vehicles (exhaust noise tests) should ideally be carried out consecutively with the tests on the same vehicle in motion.​
3.1.2 The measurements shall be made at an open site where the ambient and wind noise levels are at least 10 dB(A) below the noise level being measured. The site may take the form of an open space where a rectangle with sides no closer than 3 m from the extremities of the vehicle can be described. The test site surface should be practically level, consisting of concrete, asphalt or similar material and not covered with powdery snow, tall grass, loose soil, ashes or the like.​
3.1.3 Measurements shall not be made under adverse weather conditions. Any sound peak which appears to be unrelated to the characteristics of the general sound level of the vehicle shall be ignored in taking the readings. If a wind guard is used, its influence on the sensitivity and the directional characteristics of the microphone shall be taken into account.​
3.1.4 Whilst testing is in progress no person other than any occupants of the vehicle shall be within 1 m of the microphone in use. No person or object other than the person conducting the test and an observer or the objects necessary for the performance of the test shall be within 3m of the microphone in use.​
3.1.5 Before the measurements are begun, the engine shall be brought to its normal operating conditions as regards: temperatures, tuning, fuel, sparking plugs, carburettor(s), etc. as appropriate.​
3.1.6 The use of special acoustic shielding may be permitted in unusual cases. Refer to paragraph​

3.2 Microphone position.
3.2.1 The microphone shall be directed towards the orifice of the exhaust outlet and shall be supported by a tripod or similar device not providing excessive acoustic reflection.​
3.2.2 The nominal axis of maximum sensitivity of the microphone shall be substantially parallel to the test site surface.​
3.2.3 The height of the microphone above the test site surface shall be equal to that of the orifice of the exhaust outlet + 25 mm but shall not be less than 200 mm above the test site surface.​
3.2.4 The distance of the microphone from the orifice of the exhaust outlet shall be:
3.2.4.1 in the case of a ‘Goods Vehicle’ or ‘Omnibus’ 1050 mm + 50 mm,
3.2.4.2 in the case of any other vehicle 525 mm +25 mm.

3.2.5 For vehicles fitted with one exhaust outlet which is at a height above the test site surface of less than 1500 mm, the nominal axis of maximum sensitivity of the microphone shall make an angle of 45 degrees + 10 degrees with the principal direction of the gas flow from the exhaust outlet.​
3.2.5.1 In selecting this microphone position the microphone shall be placed so that the
greatest possible distance is achieved between it and the vehicle.

3.2.6 For vehicles fitted with one exhaust outlet which is at a height above the test site surface of at least 1500 mm, the nominal axis of maximum sensitivity of the microphone shall make an angle of 90 degrees + 10 degrees with the longitudinal centreline of the vehicle.​
3.2.6.1 In selecting this microphone position the microphone shall be placed so that the
greatest possible distance is achieved between it and the vehicle.

3.2.7 For vehicles fitted with two or more exhaust outlets spaced less than 500 mm apart and connected to a single silencer only one microphone position shall be used. That position shall be selected in accordance with the procedure described in the preceding paragraphs in respect of an exhaust outlet which results in the microphone being at the greatest possible distance from the vehicle.​
3.2.8 For vehicles fitted with two or more exhaust outlets connected to separate silencers or spaced more than 500 mm apart, each exhaust outlet shall be treated separately as if it was the only one.​
3.2.9 Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in the preceding paragraphs if the microphone positioning procedures result in no suitable position due to an obstruction being part of the vehicle or in an obstruction being directly between the microphone and the exhaust outlet, the requirements of paragraphs 3.2.2 and 3.2.3 may be varied.​


3.3 Vehicle operation and noise measurement.
3.3.1 The vehicle shall be stationary with the transmission in neutral or, in the case of a vehicle with automatic transmission, with the gear selector in the “park” position if such a position is provided.​
3.3.2 In the case of Goods Vehicles and Omnibuses powered by a ‘Diesel Engine’ the engine shall be operated in accordance with the following procedure.​
3.3.2.1 With the engine at idling speed the accelerator pedal of the vehicle shall be
depressed as rapidly as possible and kept fully depressed until the speed of the engine is substantially stable at maximum (or governed) speed. The accelerator pedal shall then be permitted to return to its original position as rapidly as possible and left in that position until the engine has returned to idling speed.​
3.3.2.2 A single noise level measurement shall be made for each microphone position in
use by noting the maximum noise level indicated during this procedure.

3.3.3 In the case of all other vehicles the engine shall be operated in accordance with the following procedure.​
3.3.3.1 The engine shall be brought to 3/4 ‘ESMP’ and stabilised at that speed.
3.3.3.2 A single noise level measurement shall then be made.

3.3.4 The specified procedure shall be repeated until four consecutive readings having a range less than or equal to 1dB(A) are obtained for each microphone position used.​

3.4 Interpretation of results for stationary vehicles.
3.4.1 Where one microphone position is used the noise level of the vehicle shall be the arithmetic mean of the four readings specified in paragraph 3.3.4.​
3.4.2 When the sound level of the vehicle has been calculated, non-integer results shall be rounded down to the nearest whole decibel.​
3.4.3 Where more than one microphone position is used the noise level at each microphone position shall be determined as if it was the only one. The noise level of the vehicle shall be the higher or highest noise level so calculated.​
3.4.4 If the microphone position is less than 1m from the engine compartment of the vehicle the calculated noise level shall be reduced by 2dB(A) unless the provisions of paragraph 3.4.5 have been invoked.​
3.4.5 Where the mechanical noise of the vehicle (for example engine or transmission noise) can be shown to increase the measured noise level by 2dB(A) or more, special acoustic shielding may be fitted to mask this source so that the test is carried out on the exhaust noise alone.​
3.4.5.1 Such shielding shall not interfere with the normal acoustic properties of the
Noise Reduction System’.
3.4.5.2 Where such shielding is used both noise levels (with and without the shielding)
shall be reported. The noise level with the shielding in place shall be used to assess the vehicle’s compliance.​
3.4.5.3 Where such shielding is used the provisions of paragraph 3.4.4 shall not apply.

in a roadside test it is impractical to get an acurate reading and setup the equipment correctly thus all rodside test could be debunked in court
 
So i'm screwed ;)

we measured my 107 db at 1 mtr back at 45 * off axis to the exhausts outlet and it was approx 700mm off the ground.
at 4500rpm (redline is 7500) I actually think my twin plate clutch rattled louder than the exhaust note. (get a shield around that one!)
So really in a nut shell a DB test should be performed in a controlled enviroment like a workshop or a old runway in a field with no wind and completly deserted while remotely revving the snot out of your engine at 7500 rpm

haven't they heard it is bad to free rev an engine ??? expecially at 7500 or if you do the 3/4 thing thats 5625rpm
 
There is also a rolling test described in the adrs but a standing test is the most common for inspectors to carry out for enforcement purposes. Ideally they are supposed to carry out both a rolling and standing test. One after the other. But if you were smart you could debunk any roadside test with some video provjng they didn't callibrate the device immediately prior to testing your vehicle I've seen a few roadside tests carried out and have not once seen them calibrate the meter as prescribed.
 
Nope, the exhaust noise test should not go up to redline. Our engnes have a redline of 7,000rpm, therefore the test should only be measured up to 4,300rpms or there abouts.
Depending on turbo size and when it cuts in can reduce or increase your exhausts db output at 4.300rpm ;)
 
and yours only revs to 7000 hey rob? (not)

If I let mine go it would rev to 8500 and thats a stroker

Robevos - I think his 2.4 went to something like 9500

Still I cant imagine the police are going to let you go if you try and argue with them about the regulations

best bet is film them with your trusty mobile phone and use that in court.
as long as you tell them you are recording it, I think you would be fine.

Still mine does not meet regulations. So I'm still screwed!
 
thats it jetgsr your best bet is to not argue semantic on the side of the road just say you'd like to record this for your own evidence make a single comment or question relating to what standard the test is being carried out in accordance with then use you video and reasearch to fight it in court even if your screwed disproving the results/test gets you off and that all you need.

by asking what standrad they are testing to you can use that statement against them to reasearch and find a way to prove they didn't test correctly which they never do on the side of the road they can't. they can't prove the ambient noise isn't changing. a road face is not practically level By nature. many things in the fine print to rebut the test and win your case. just don't try on the side of the road not only will you still get the fine but most likely others as-well for failing the d-bag test
 
and yours only revs to 7000 hey rob? (not)

They are not allowed to take the engine anywhere near redline (in fear of backlash for insurance claims etc in case the engine blows up).
Its written in the Stationery Exhaust Noise testing procedure. Basically it doesnt matter what rpm your engine can 'actually' rev to, if they CAN determine what engine it is and if its originally from the car they will go by 3/4 of the figure from the start of the redline on the gauges cluster.
If they cant identify the redline (say you have a different engine from a different car), then the maximum rpm they are allowed to take it to is only 4,000rpm on an engine with less than 5 cylinders :)
 

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