Quick question on engineering...

[95 GSR]

Hey guys...

Just after a little info on the following...

Let say I have an 04 Subaru Impreza GX 2.0 AWD and I buy say an ass ended 04 Subaru Impreza WRX 2.0 turbo AWD and I reshell the wrx using the shell from the GX... So start with a bare GX shell and transplant everything from the wrx into it...

Do I have to get the car engineered in NSW ??

 

[EVO-00X]

Yes you still do, but it will be easy for the engineer to state that every modification to the GX is factory upgrade and substituted from the top of the range model WRX. But other than the engine, what else is going to be a 'stand out' obvious mod?

 

[95 GSR]

The only real difference from the outside would be the WRX bonnet v's the non scooped GX bonnet and if you really pay attention the bigger Subaru labeled brakes.

 

[khubner1]

I was always under the impression that a family swap from a same model like this could be done unengineered so long as everything mechanical from the higher spec model was used.

 

[VIN18M]

I was always under the impression that a family swap from a same model like this could be done unengineered so long as everything mechanical from the higher spec model was used.

I think you still need an engineer to check that the job has been done properly

 

[EVO-00X]

Non turbo to turbo engine swap = engineer.
And VIN18M is correct... the engine change will require inspection that the equivalent brakes, suspension, steering and emissions components of the WRX were used. Its an easy job to engineer. No need for emissions testing either.

 

[95 GSR]

Thanks for your help guys..

Yeah I'm swapping everything over... Only using the bare shell, 4 doors, boot lid, rear bar from the wife's car. Everything else will be from the wrx.

Reason for doing this is she had a small miship two weekends ago in her 04 Impreza. The Headlight, corner of bonnet, front of guard, and bumper were damaged.. (The car was driven home..) It didn't even damage the bar reo nothing, just the out side panels...

I started looking for parts and it was going to cost $1700 for second hand ones in different colours ! Her colour is fairly rare and I've only seen 2 others in 4 years that are the same colour so i knew i wouldnt find any to match.. She has also been wanting to put a wrx bonnet, side skirts and wing on it... So the price above includes a wrx bonnet ($600 alone).... I though I may as well do the bonnet now seeing it had to be replaced anyway..

Anyways, While looking for parts I came across a complete, still drivable 93000k 04 wrx with rear end damage.. The beaver, boot lid, bar and lights were stuffed, the rest of the car is sweet..

I got it for $2000.. So for an extra $300 over what the parts alone were going to cost I got all the parts I needed plus full wrx running gear, full wrx interior, larger 4 piston front, dual piston rear brakes, front alloy lower control arms, 17" wrx wheels plus the wrx bonnet, side skirts and wing she wanted....

So that's the plan....


Can you guys recommend an engineer ??

Quick pic from the trip home..

 

[4piknup]

Sounds great. Or you could just do the cosmetic upgrade and sell the motor and come out even better.
Im the same mate, buy a whole car for the bits you want and sell the rest. $2k sounds like a good price.

 

[evo-gsr]

Thats a steal for 2 grand.

 

[95 GSR]

Cheers guys...


Yeah still not 100% on doing the motor, box, diff swap.. Need to find out the engineering cost first....

But everything else will be done, well most already has...

I need to find an engineer and get a price....

 

[CLuTZ]

http://www.rexnet.com.au/forum/

 

[95 GSR]

Yeah been surfing that site over the last few days... Some good info so far....

Cheers man...

 

[EVO-00X]

My brother had his car engineered through Terry Toomey in Seven Hills, Sydney.
Details attached below.

 

[95 GSR]

Thanks heaps dude. I'll give him a call tomorrow.

Cheers.

 

[Marc]

Nice buy dude.

I have nothing else to add to this thread other than what has already been said.

 

[95 GSR]

Cheers bud.

Yeah I spoke to Terry and he said the same as some on here and that is he doesn't think it needs to be engineered as I'm just upgrading to a higher spec level of the same car.. So same family and series of car just a higher spec level.

But he said to speak to the rms (rta) and get it in black an white from them as we all know what they can be like.

I then spoke to the rms and the bimbo from there didn't really seem to know much about any thing and also wouldn't put me through to there tech guys and said that she would ask them for me !!! LOL.. Problem is, is that she kept saying "so your going to turbo your car !!" I kept saying I'm not turboing it as in like I have a commodore and I want to turbo it. Its that I have a car being a 04 model Subaru impreza that is GX spec level and I want to put all the parts from a 04 model Subaru impreza that is a WRX spec level that comes turbo for the factory. Her reply was again so you want to turbo your car !! She then went to ask the "tech guys" about it. Which I can only assume would have went something along the line of "if I turbo my car do I have to engineer it ??" LOL.. Of cause there reply was yes !!

I then read her a section of the VSI No. 6 which terry pointed me too, that says under the heading of "significant modifications requiring certification". Is.. An engine that is not of an original family of engine for the series of model, or any engine more then 20% larger then the largest original optional engine for that series.

her reply was I don't know but the tech guys told me you have to do it. So at that point I gave up talking to her.

So to me that says that the largest engine offered in my series being the impreza series was the turbo motor in the WRX version. And as this is the motor I want to use then I shouldn't need engineering !!

So I'm confused. And don't really know where to go from here. LOL..

Building my airbaged mini truck was so much easier as there is not really any part of the whole truck that is un modified so I knew for a fact it had to be engineered. LOL..

Terry also told me that if the rms(rta) do end up saying it has to be engineered then it could cost me up to $1400 !! Yeah that an't happening. !!

 

[EVO-00X]

Yes it will need an engineer certificate to cover it due to the reasons I advised above.
If you were only putting upgraded brakes or suspension, seats etc from the higher model car, then no engineer cert required.
But because you are also changing to the turbo high performance engine, an engineer needs to sign off that you have used the all the upgraded brakes, suspension, steering components of that higher model performance car.
e.g base model CC Lancer sedan has crappy small brakes, soft suspension and is FWD. It also came with a 1.5 carby and a 1.8 EFI. You cant just put a GSR Turbo engine in it because the GSR came out as a 1.8 Turbo with different brakes, different emissions components, different suspension, different wheels etc to handle the extra power from the motor and higher speeds.

Just like your Subaru, upgrading all other components to the higher spec model is considered as a minor 'owner certified' modification. But going from non turbo to turbo is different as the turbo car requires the rest of the upgraded factory parts that go with it. It's clear to understand why = safety.

Your conversion is easy to engineer as you have everything you need as a bolt off-bolt in swap with no modifications. Terry wouldnt need to do much background investigation at all, in fact all he will need to do is check that you used all the parts from the WRX as OEM intended. $1,400 is actually pretty much the current minimum going rate for engineering. You can probably find another guy cheaper due to the ease of conversion and minimal work that the engineer has to do.

Also remember that legally you must also have to green slip insure your car. If you didnt get it engineered can you imagine in the even of an accident, even if its not your fault, having the insurance companies go "hang on, wait a sec.... that car has a turbo engine in it from a WRX". It can and will save you a lot of headaches and legal action if you have it engineered.

Also you will need to claim the conversion as a modification to the insurance companies for any insurance purposes.
It also covers you in case the Police pull you over.
It also covers you when you go to get an RMS pink slip/ blue slip inspection.
$1400 is peace of mind forever. Because if you dont do it, there is going to be a time when you're going to wish you did - even when you try to sell the car sometime down the track.

 

[EVO-00X]

Oh and dont bother calling the RMS as they will just have normal office people answering calls. Even if you do get a hold of someone in the vehicle compliance/ regulations section, they will just direct you to go and see an RMS engineering signatory or authorised vehicle inspection station about modifications anyway. They take no responsiblity since a few years ago when the honus of authorising modifications fell back to the engineers. This is why engineers had to increase their prices, because their insurance costs went up and they are responsible for each car they certify for a period of 7 years and they must hold record of the certification, photos, documentation, technical info for that period of time too. If you do get pulled over or have an accident and shit hits the fan, the RMS already have a copy of the engineering certification on file for their authorised vehicle inspection stations (AUVIS), Police and Insurance companies to access.
$1,400 may seem like a lot, but guys can get charged anything from $3k+ in most instances if its all left up to the engineer to do all the ground work and associated tests to prove that the car still complies to ADR's, emissions standards and state/national codes of practice/guidelines for light vehicle modifiications.

 

[khubner1]

and this is why i love living in qld. engineering is much simpler and cost efficient. most places charge $350 for the first code and $50 for each code after that. so to do an awd swap in qld with recaro interior your looking at $650 in engineering costs.

 

[95 GSR]

Cheers dude.. Yeah the insurance thing is the main reason why I asked about this... I don't want there to be a hassle down the track if something bad ever happened. I of cause want to be 100% covered....


So I'll leave it up to the misses. if she decides she really wants the turbo motor and is kool with spending the cash for engineering then We'll go ahead with it.. If not then the motor, box, diff and a complete wiring harness will be up for sale..... It would basically still be a complete car as I've put all my stock parts back in the wrx shell to keep it mobile...

All the suspension, brakes, wheels, interior and panels have already been swapped over and the car is now back on the road, we'll see what happens over the next few weeks and we'll go from there...

Thanks for all your help guys.. Much appreciated...

On a side note. It got a bit cold up here the other night, Made it a little hard to work that night! LoL...