Rebuild time.

4GTuner

Help Support 4GTuner:

jack of all said:
Sounds like a good build.
I have a for sale thread with evo10 3bar map sensors if you want one.
Ok I will check it out, what are the stock sensors on these? 2bar?

evo-gsr said:
I think you a playing a game of roulette pushing stock pistons to that level. It might be alright, but for how long? A stock clutch probably wont like it either in my opinion. I had an Exedy organic clutch on a 20g with around 220kw and it lasted 14000 ks before it would start slipping in 3rd gear at anything over 5000rpm.

Ok well maybe I will have to stretch the budget to include some forged rods/pistons. What boost were you running to achive 220kw with the 20g?
 
You probably just have some poorly seating valves! I highly recommend doing "head job", which is MUCH easier than engine rebuild!

While you are there, get a Cometic or OEM metal gasket and ARP studs.

Rebuilding 7 bolt motor is NOT easy! I would avoid it if you can.

Stock bottom end can take 500-600whp without much trouble! Just get rid of those pesky balance shafts...
 
Thanks Leon, I wish mine was as fast as yours is! I have ARP studs and a cometic top end kit, hope fully I can get a way with just a head rebuild.



So I pulled the head last night, what should I be looking for in the bores? To my eyes they look quite good, there are 1 or 2 slight scratches/scores but nothing I thought would be major. I will take some pictures later on.
 
jack of all said:
Looks like a couple of little kisses on the top pic cant see any on the bottom pic.
Did you put some kero in the ports, that will show how good the valve seal is.

Yeah all but one leaked, I am confused as to what to do. Not sure whether to do a full rebuild or not, I know my wife would be happier with the latter...
 
Connor said:
Yeah all but one leaked, I am confused as to what to do. Not sure whether to do a full rebuild or not, I know my wife would be happier with the latter...
So its either rering or new pistons and rebore. The difference is how worn the bores are. I make a stop-go gauge. Its a bit of wire cut and filed to length. If it fits in the bore you need new pistons, if it doesnt fit you can rering. But feel the top of the bore, for the step between where the top ring does/doesnt go. If this is a big step you def need new pistons.

Plastigauge the mains and big ends to see bearing wear
 
Guys, where are you seeing a reason for a full engine rebuild? "Wet" compression test is very unreliable because it is tough to get the oil on the cylinder walls. Do you have a sign of blow-by in your crankcase?

Rebuild the head and reinstall it. Take compression and go from there! Worst case, you are looking at a new head gasket.

Actually, a good machine shop will tell you if your head had poorly seating valves.
 
Post no1 does it for me. It shows low compression, that is raised significantly by oil.
Pulling the head and then seeing that the valves will not hold kero is proof that the valves need to be pulled, inspected and relapped as a minimum.
The kero test is same/better than the machine shop test. Just for backyarders.
 
Well I can't get the go ahead for the forged rods/pistons so it looks like cast pistons, stock rods, timing kit, oil pump, ARP head studs, bearing if needed and a head job.


Speaking of head jobs :p I just bought this tool http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/121173625211?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 and I will be lapping the valves and doing the seals myself.

Can anyone recommend a good valve lapping compound(s)/tool?

Also what oil pump, water pump and timing kit should I be looking at? Would just any old 7bolt pump/kit work?
 
Its just lapping compound. My tube has coarse grind at one end and fine at other.
I pull the valve, wire wheel it clean, spin it in a cordless drill to check its not bent, then lap it. I use a bit of vacuum hose pushed over valve stem and other end in cordless drill. Check progress often.
Recheck with kero
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Without knowing EXCACTLY how much oil was added to each cylinder, you do not know why there was an increase in compression! Many people use too much oil and effectively reduce the size of combustion chamber, thus raising mechanical compression ratio AND increasing the compression reading! [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]As I said before, “wet tests” are NOT reliable! This is also coming from 20+ years of racing and rebuilding these motors…. 95% of low compression problems on 4G63s are caused by poorly sealing or bent valves! If it is a problem with the pistons/rings you also see lots of blow-by coming out of your dipstick and/or breather.[/SIZE]
 
leon r said:
[SIZE=10.5pt]Without knowing EXCACTLY how much oil was added to each cylinder, you do not know why there was an increase in compression! Many people use too much oil and effectively reduce the size of combustion chamber, thus raising mechanical compression ratio[/SIZE] AND increasing the compression reading!

[SIZE=10.5pt]As I said before, “wet tests” are NOT reliable! This is also coming from 20+ years of racing and rebuilding these motors…. 95% of low compression problems on 4G63s are caused by poorly sealing or bent valves! If it is a problem with the pistons/rings you also see lots of blow-by coming out of your dipstick and/or breather.[/SIZE]
There was a fair bit of blow by coming out of the oil filler cap, but I never noticed any from the dipstick or the breather.

I used the cap from the oil container to be a rough guide for measurement, but as you said I have no idea how much oil I used.


Well either way the engine has to come out I need to do the timing belt and head as a bare minimum, or can the timing belt be done while the engine is still in? I have had a look and it seems like a tight fit.
 
Not sure if same...but timing belt can be done while engine is in, in my Evo.
Its much easier if you are taking the engine out to do something else, to do it then but.
 
You're supposed to use 1-2 teaspoons for a wet compression test and to work out exactly where you are losing pressure, get a leak down test! It is relatively necessary after getting poor results from a compression test.

What Leon is saying is correct in that a lot of people won't hit the cylinder walls and/or put too much oil in, myself, I use an oil tin with an extended oil squirter and rotate around the cylinder wall, knowing how many squeezes equates to 1-2 teaspoons. Personally I would just go right ahead and do a leak down test to know exactly what will be needed and where.
 
Wet compression testing is an old school trick, originally adapted on V8 engines. 1-2 teaspoons will almost always guarantee oil on the cylinder wall because the cylinders are not vertical. On straight four, low compression 4G63 engine you have to full the “dish” on top of the piston before you get oil on the cylinder wall! At that point, you have taken up at least 30% of your combustion chamber. How do you NOT get a higher reading in this case?

The only method that I found somewhat acceptable is to use a long straw and spray few squirts of aerosol oil. It tends spray around and deposit itself on the cylinder walls without greatly affecting the volume. But even that method is not very reliable.

Take a head off, have a good shop rebuild it, they will tell you if it was bad. You have to do this no matter what, so why not start with it? You can save yourself a MAJOR headache if you end-up avoiding short block rebuild!

Remember – NO ONE BUILDS THESE ENGINES BETTER THAN MITSU!

Timing belts are definitely easier to change on the engine stand, than in the engine bay, but it can definitely can be done inside the car!

BTW, the nicks on the pistons indicate previously bent valves, so this head was already rebuilt once (or replaced by a remanufactured head). And if it wasn’t done right, that could explain why you valves could be leaking
 
Well, I finally received my euroexport valve spring remover and pulled the valves...



All the exhaust valves were bent! So could that be responsible for my compression issues?
 

Latest posts

Back
Top