Reverse pops out - have my gearbox open right now

[scoobytime]

Hi everybody,

I've been reading a lot about the reverse popping out on early evo's, and I own a Lancer EVO II with the same problem.

- Reverse pops out, even if I come from 1st
- reverse doesn't pop out with handbrake, the boot is going up, but it doesn't pop out
- checked inside, at gear lever, no problems
- checked the cables, manually putted into reverse to be sure, it aren't the cables
- checked the reverse light on top of the gearbox
- even checked the poppet springs and bearings

Now, I am not a mechanics, but I really wanted to give al the TLC she deserves and having a bit of free time I decided to play the hero and open up the M/T case

- The reverse synchro looks good: http://imgur.com/VxcJzpb (the inner ring notches doesn't look quite well actually)
- The wave spring looks good too: http://imgur.com/dhwNPOz
- The key and spring looks good too: http://i.imgur.com/pJ9jZeR.jpg
- Internal seems good to me too: http://i.imgur.com/CxzFr7g.jpg

What's the next step

Thanks !

Ben

 

[Benzo4gT]

Sigh.....................does anyone bother to use the introductions page anymore? Can mods make this one of the rules!?

Apart from that, great name and a concise post.

 

[scoobytime]

Did this in a hurry, this can be deleted, I will create myself a new username and a profile where I can present myself

 

[EVO-00X]

The keys look really worn out to me. It's also a bit hard to see the wave spring condition, also the actual synchro spring could be tired and loose too judging by the condition of the keys.
Would be good to see a picture of the reverse synchro side on so I can see the shape of the teeth (should be shaped like little houses)

 

[scoobytime]

I tried to take as much as possible pictures to show you everything that I have at the moment: http://imgur.com/a/QV0t0

Now I am trying to remove this pin to access the rest of the gearbox, but with the gearbox still in the car it's almost impossible. Do you have some tips?

Thank you so much for helping me, I really appreciate it.

 

[scoobytime]

And this is the pin I'm talking about: http://i.imgur.com/6xvenwp.jpg

 

[3VOLUTIONIST]

I had to knock it about 10mm out from the gear side of the pin, with a small drillbit. Then vicegrips to squish it a bit, then it wiggled out. Took my an hour of stuffing about though. Didnt damage the pin beyond reuse though.

 

[scoobytime]

Thanks ! Ok, the pin gave it up, so it's out now.
Next step, remove the end lock nut. Right now it doesn't seem loose.
When I try to turn it, the hub is turning with it.
Is there an 'easy' way to remove this lock nut ?

 

[3VOLUTIONIST]

If youve got that pin out, pull the selector fork (not sure if thats the correct name, the cast iron C shaped bit) off the shaft you just pulled the pin out of. You should then be able to engage fifth gear by manually moving that slider. Then, use the shift forks to engage another gear. This puts the box in two gears simultaneously and locks it.

The two end nuts require a big ass socket (36mm iirc?) And they are deformed into a cutout in the shaft to lock them in place, so youll have to either cut that section away, or attempt to bend the metal back out.
I got stuck here with me garage tools yesterday, don't have a 36mm socket.
Dont try and use a nut f*cker, it'll just slip and youll damage the box, or yourself.

Im sure someone on here has gotten their nuts off (heh..), hopefully they'll comment.

 

[scoobytime]

Thanks, ok great, glad I got a 36mm socket yesterday

So I have to pull the C shape towards me, but that will bring the hub with it right ?
And after I pulled the C shape, I have to put it back in to select 5th gear ?

Is it possible to bend the metal away again?

 

[3VOLUTIONIST]

It will, just make sure all the bits ontop of the hup dont go flying (the springy bit and those 3 little rectangles) if theyre still in there. You might have to tap it out with a rubber mallet. Its on the shaft pretty tight. Just remember its cast iron..

 

[scoobytime]

I removed the springs and keys already, so that's sorted.
Can you please explain what I have to do now?
First remove the bolt and then the C shape?
And how do you avoid the hub moving along with the bolt (so how do you put it in 2 gears simultanously) ?

 

[3VOLUTIONIST]

Ive explained how to put it into two gears simultaneously above. Slide that C shape part up the shaft and remove it. Put into 5th and some other gear. Then go from there.

The nuts are probably one use only. I wouldnt be reusing them. Not for the sake of $8...
Nuts come off after you lock the transmission up. Thats why youre locking it up, so you can undo them.

You'll find this useful
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/Trannyrebuild.html

 

[scoobytime]

Ok guys, next step, could something behind that bolt cause the reverse to pop out? Or should I try first with keys and springs ?
Slide the C shape = no luck and I don't want to force it.

 

[EVO-00X]

Do not go any further. You didn't have to knock out the pin of the 5th/Reverse shift fork or try to remove the large nut. Everything for 5th gear "synchro" wise is on the back of the gearbox.
You should only have changed the keys and reverse spring and put a new reverse synchro in. The wave spring still looks OK, but again from pics it is difficult to tell if its any good but it makes sense replacing it as it is not expensive and you at lease have brand new parts as far as selecting reverse at the synchro hub and slider assembly goes.
FYI, on the other side of that hub you will see another spring, that is for 5th gear (shown in red on my pic). When you put your new keys back in, you have to make sure that the 5th gear spring goes behind each key so the key doesnt fall inside. Then once that's done, put the new reverse spring in behind the keys (on your end) and sit the reverse synchro back in. Put the wave spring back on and the end case back on.
Then with the gearbox back together see if it pops out of reverse. If it still does, then the problem is not in the end case and would more likely be the reverse idler arm and shoe deep within the bellhousing of the gearbox, which you cant do without taking the gearbox off and fully disassembling it.
Unless you have the proper tools and good mechanical knowledge to venture inside and do that with the workshop manual in hand, I strongly recommend you get the gearbox done by somebody who knows what they are doing. Plus if inside, you might as well check the condition of the bearings and synchros and gears and probably do a rebuild if you are planning on keeping the car for a while.
PS: I have four internet browsers installed on my PC = Internet Explorer 11, Opera, Google Chrome and Firefox. I cant open up any of the IMGUR pics except on Opera, because the others block IMGUR. I think it is because I also have Adaware blocking software on my PC that installed ad blocking add-ons on the other browsers.

 

[scoobytime]

Thank you so much for the information.

I can try that indeed as they are inexpensive parts.
Just to be sure, this is what I should order ?

3x MD742777 (keys)
1x MD742441 (C shaped spring)
1x MD744342 (spring on the case itself)

This reverse synchro is rather expensive
1x MD746439 (reverse synchro)

PS: can you also please explain how this poppet ball/bearing/spring works in the rail?

 

[scoobytime]

Ordered all the new parts.
Can you please tell me how to put the C shaped spring ?
In red is the 5th gear spring
http://i.imgur.com/8tTM9it.jpg

 

[EVO-00X]

Yeah what you want to do is see which way the spring is fitted on the underside of the hub by looking through the keyholes. Look at the item I marked in red in my first pic above.
Through one of the holes where the keys go in, there will be a notch in the spring. What you want to do is insert your new Reverse synchro spring (the C thing as you call it) to be in the opposite direction of that notch on the underside. In other words, make sure your reverse spring notch goes onto one of the other keys and not the same one.
Then use a small screwdriver to press in the springs and insert the keys into the keyholes. Look at that same pic to see which way the keys go in and how it will look when assembled.

 

[EVO-00X]

* Yes, all your Mitsubishi part numbers listed above are correct as I just double checked them.
* Yes, the spring you can see through the keyholes on the underside is the 5th gear spring. So now that I can see the pic in IMGUR, you should install your new REVERSE spring with the notch at the keyhole in the 8 o'clock position and run it past the 6 o'clock position to end at the 1 o'clock position. Basically you are making the Reverse spring run in the opposite direction to the 5th spring.

EDIT: I've just made it easier for you to understand using your picture. Install the reverse spring as per the green line in this pic.