td05 16g upgrade

[evopwr]

I'm wandering if it's worth upgrading my td05-16g turbo internals to 20g-spec.

Is it worth upgrading only the compressor wheel to 20g, and keeping the turbine blade 16g? Or will this cause excessive lag (my thinking says yes)?

What if the turbine blade is upgraded to 20g size and compressor wheel left 16g, will that cause the turbo to be more responsive?

I'm basically looking for equal (or better) spool up time as OEM whilst improving the turbo.

Engine is a 4g63t.

Cheers,
Alex

 

[DOUGMO]

20g wheel and cut back exhaust wheel works pretty well. spool is pretty similar with alot more to redline. well worth considering imo.

 

[bazeng]

Agreed with George.

It'll give you more power thats for sure with the look of a stock turbo. You could go tdo6 front cover with tdo5 internals & a 20g or 25g wheel.

ATP are known to make good bolt on turbo's for the Mitis or you could go overseas and try STEVE MURCH?

 

[evopwr]

george, why the 'cut back turbine wheel' ?? I thought the only modification required was a ported compressor housing?

-Alex

 

[DOUGMO]

cut back helps with flow and cuts down boost creep, you would definatley be advised to port the wastegate port also(gt pumps housing may be the go as they already have the larger flapper plate but still require porting to make them work well)

 

[bazeng]

By cutting back the exhaust wheel, you'll effectively be allowing the engine to breath more, which in turns gives you more up top BUT you will lose a bit of spool down low...

You'll be reducing exhaust back pressure which is a good thing..

It is all relative to what character tics you want with the power curve.

 

[evopwr]

When you say cut back the exhaust wheel, do you mean reduce the length of the turbine shaft?

 

[LWNSLW]

I think he means down size the compressor wheel ie 0.86 to 0.63.... I think this is what hes talken about if not someone correct me...

 

[EVOCPE]

Cut back exhaust wheel is cutting 6-7 degrees off outside edge of wheel to balance things better when fitting a larger compressor wheel

Draw an imaginary line across the outside edge of the exhaust blades, it will be angled downwards. Using the top centre as the pivot, move the line 6-7 degrees downwards. Trim the blades this much

You'll need a lathe and should also rebalance the whole assembly afterwards. It is a machine shop job

 

[VR-4Squid]

I'm wandering if it's worth upgrading my td05-16g turbo internals to 20g-spec.

Is it worth upgrading only the compressor wheel to 20g, and keeping the turbine blade 16g? Or will this cause excessive lag (my thinking says yes)?

What if the turbine blade is upgraded to 20g size and compressor wheel left 16g, will that cause the turbo to be more responsive?

I'm basically looking for equal (or better) spool up time as OEM whilst improving the turbo.

Engine is a 4g63t.

Cheers,
Alex

Okay just quickly, 16G, 20G etc refer to the compressor size/type only. You can use a 20G compressor with a modified stock compressor housing, but it will work better with a bigger compressor housing. How much power are you aiming for? and what sort of rev range? a 16G is capable of nearly 250kw@wheels (~23psi) - if you want to make more than that you WILL lose some of that response

 

[JSTYLE]

Okay just quickly, 16G, 20G etc refer to the compressor size/type only. You can use a 20G compressor with a modified stock compressor housing, but it will work better with a bigger compressor housing. How much power are you aiming for? and what sort of rev range? a 16G is capable of nearly 250kw@wheels (~23psi) - if you want to make more than that you WILL lose some of that response

No offence but id loved to witness a TD05H-16G unmodified make 250kw.. i dont think its possible, ive used alot of hybrid TD05Hs!

I ran a TD05H-20G with backcut rear and stock front machined out that setup was nice and punchy just like stock.

However if you run a TD06H-20G comp wheel/comp cover you will notice that it is much quicker on spool and makes much better noises lolz!

Ive also run a TD05H-20G full 20G in a TD05 watercooled core.. Definately worth it! or if you have cash to splash

TD05H-20G/T04E hybrid... this was on my GSR 1.8 and it was AWESOME.. spool was very quick and didnt lose any down low punch.

OR even better speak to Kyp at ATP and tell him you know me.. he will look after you

Jon

 

[JSTYLE]

heres a dyno graph of my old evo 1 from 2006 i think.
The AFR is really bad (too rich) higher in the power curve, obv if i ran an aftermarket ecu to get it to 12.5:1 or there abouts im sure it would of seen 250kw. anyways...

Specs:

ATP built TD05H-20G
- TD05H-core
- TD05H - rear housing
- TD05H rear wheel backcut 7 degrees
- TD06H-20G Comp Cover
- TD06H-20G Comp wheel
- Stock actuator (relocated)

560cc injectors
HKS 264 camshafts
Stock bottom end
Chipped stock computer
Upgraded intercooler pipes
Standard FMIC
CAI
Pod filter
MBC set to 20psi but would taper down to 17psi!

12.050 @ 117mph at calder BEST MPH was i think 119mph.

Jon

 

[evopwr]

i dont know if I would want to get the 20g compressor cover, as you'd have to weld on some mounting tabs for the actuator and, more importantly, it doesnt looks stock no more.

 

[JSTYLE]

i dont know if I would want to get the 20g compressor cover, as you'd have to weld on some mounting tabs for the actuator and, more importantly, it doesnt looks stock no more.

machining out the stock comp cover to suit a 20g is pretty bad imho.. its really restrictive and laggy on boost, i dont think youd like it if you want something like oem.! i spose you really cant have your cake and eat it as these turbos didnt come out with massive comp covers like the evo 9s

Jon

 

[ENGINR]

My mate was running a 20g comp wheel from GT Pumps with a machined out TD05 comp housing, GT Pumps turbine housing and back cut turbine wheel on his 2.0 VR4 powered Cordia and that thing absolutely hauled to redline every gear.

The other thing you could take a look at if you haven't already Alex, is that guy on EVO-OZ who runs the E3 Corsa replica in the E1-3 tech section - he had a few posts on his new whiz-bang turbo, which looks stock from the outside but apparently flows and performs alot better.

 

[Missile]

It was the Forced Performance 68HTA Shayne.

Everyone has seen or heard about Evo3 16g turbos and TD05H 18g turbos for the Mitsubishi Eclipse 4G63 engines, our newest turbo for this application is the FP 68HTA™ Turbocharger for DSM Flanged Vehicle which out flows both the E316g and 18g wheels and allows for higher PR operation without increased compressor outlet temperatures like the existing 16g and 18g wheels. Mass flow is increased to a whopping 47lb/min which is several lb/min greater than either the E316g or the 18g wheels are capable. Rapid spool and large torque numbers are guaranteed by the TD05H turbine section.

Lucas English from English Racing runs a quick 10.5 @ 130mph at BOTI in Sacramento January 10, 2010.

 

[GSRWRC]

To clear up a lot of MHI Turbo misnomers that really drive me nuts:

16G/20G etc etc refers to the compressor wheel ONLY, there is no such thing as a "16G turbine" or exhaust wheel.

TD05H/TD06H etc etc describes the turbine/exhaust wheel. Backcutting an exhaust wheel involved modifying the blades of the wheel itself and opening it up to flow more, the downside is that if you do this too much, the exhaust gas has less exhaust wheel to exert its force on and can reduce response.

So to end the lesson, you can have a TD05H 16G (Stock Evo), a TD05H 20G, a TD06H 20G. By saying "16G, 20G" etc etc you're only describing a fraction of the turbo and missing some of the important bits!

For the record, "Trigger" on MMC.org.nz (Username MRTDO5) has run 10.8 on a stock TD05 and put out around 260kW atw from memory. An STM tuned car.

Edit: LINK! -> http://www.mmc.org.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42955&highlight=mr4g63